Sigur Ros will not sell out.

[EL the Famous]

For the record, from the US Census Bureau:

 

"Three-Year-Average Median Household Income by State: 2004-2006"

 

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/inco.../statemhi3.html

 

Or am I missing something?

 

2006 Report

 

Page 4...rose from $47.8 to $48.2.

[Good Old Neon]

I think that some of this argument is a little too short-sided. (edit: I should clarify that I agree corporations have too much influence on politics, I'm speaking more to the idea of an immediate, government-inforced living wage)

 

Everyone always complains about the big evil corporations. Who do you think employs so many of these downtrodden workers you're talking about?

 

when you call for a wholesale "fuck the corporations, impose a living wage!" idea, what are you going to do about the fact that it will immediately cripple many of the existing corporations and cause massive layoffs and even more outsourcing?

 

Many Americans try to invest in a 401k or some kind of retirement plan--most of those plans invest in mutual funds that consist of stocks of the big evil corporations. When you dismantle the corporations are you also going to create a fund to bail out everyone's savings/retirement plans?

 

I am all for gradual change that helps put more money in the hands of those who need it, but there has to be some element of reality and long-term planning in it.

 

I don

[EL the Famous]

...when talking turkey on poverty rate as well, reference page 11. went down a hair from 2005 and down 10% since they started looking at it in 1959. also has the section on health coverage.

 

how may employers actually pay the minum wage vesus more?

[EL the Famous]

just to further level-set, are you taking into consideration the State minimum wages, a lot of which are higher than the federal?

 

then, in some certain cities, there is one higher than State. throw in the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007 that will raise the federal minimum wage to $6.55 per hour on July 24, 2008, and to $7.25 per hour on July 24, 2009.

[Beltmann]

What percentage of people working minimum-wage jobs are using that job to try to maintain a home and support a family? (Don't get me wrong, though--I'm sure a certain percentage falls into that category, and I fully support a raise in the minimum-wage. I just think we need to be honest in our arguments.)

[MattZ]

from today's pitchfork (here)

 

Band of Horses took a bit of flak a couple months back-- on the interwebs, anyway-- for licensing a song to Wal-Mart (and another to Ford) for a net-based ad campaign. "My personal stance," Band-leader Ben Bridwell wrote in response to the haters, "is that once that music is recorded and released to the world then I don't really care where it goes."

 

But despite this apparent nonchalance, Bridwell has drawn a line. Speaking to Fargo, North Dakota publication The Forum this week (linked via Brooklyn Vegan), Bridwell confirmed that while it could have taken quite a leap forward, Band of Horses' dalliance with the mega department store chain with the questionable ethics has come to an end.

 

"I called my family, talked to my girlfriend about it, talked to the guys in the band and decided it's no big deal," Bridwell said of the initial decision to license the song. "We tested it with that Web site thing that I figured nobody would really even see. But in the Internet age, you can't do anything without someone catching wind of it.

 

"Some fans, they don't even give a crap," he continued. "They're like, 'Whatever, bands got to get paid.' But at the same time, I was reluctant to do it in the back of my mind, and some fans reminded me there is a reason to feel that way about it.

 

"So once I saw our fans were let down by it, I nixed the TV commercial, and said, 'You know what, this isn't for me. Keep your money.'"

 

The TV commercial Bridwell mentions was an option Wal-Mart put before the band following the success of the web campaign (which has since ended), according to Band of Horses' label, Sub Pop.

 

So, in summary: Band of Horses could have gone all the way with Wal-Mart, but they didn't. Yay for them. Meanwhile, life goes on, Cease to Begin is out now, and Band of Horses continue their recently upsized tour in Montana this weekend. Go see them, and please people, leave the cameras at home.

[Guest Jules]

I employ ~150 semi-skilled factory workers. Our average wage is just shy of $9.50, up considerably in the last 3-4 years. Granted, this is the Chicago area which explains some of this, but no one pays minimum wage, and I have no idea what a living wage would be. Plus, Illinois minimum wage is considerably higher than the national rate (I don't even know what it is, $7.50?) They all seem to be doing fine and happy working here, as evidenced by our low turnover rate. Some of our products are labor intensive, making competition with Mexico and China very challenging. We have been tempted to move operations to Mexico, but we pride ourselves on keeping this work here and offering a quality product and communication with the customer.

 

I don't know what my point is here. I guess I am a little sensitive to any talk of the evil corporations, etc. We are definitely not "big-business", but some of the same issues apply. We offer pretty nice benefits; heavily subsidized health care (I wish we could pay for all of it), 401K, paid vacation, personal time, etc., and most of our workforce doesn't even take part in the health care or 401K. It's confounding, I guess, but also a reality.

[Guest j.bickerson]

Politicians, mostly conservative ones, decry the destruction of the family, and of course, they always trot out all sorts of evidence to support this theory, usually having to do with music, movies,

[Good Old Neon]

What percentage of people working minimum-wage jobs are using that job to try to maintain a home and support a family? (Don't get me wrong, though--I'm sure a certain percentage falls into that category, and I fully support a raise in the minimum-wage. I just think we need to be honest in our arguments.)

 

 

They

[EL the Famous]

What percentage of people working minimum-wage jobs are using that job to try to maintain a home and support a family? (Don't get me wrong, though--I'm sure a certain percentage falls into that category, and I fully support a raise in the minimum-wage. I just think we need to be honest in our arguments.)

 

Good point, B.

 

According to Current Population Survey estimates for 2006' date=' 76.5 million American workers were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.7 percent of all wage and salary workers. Of those paid by the hour, 409,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.3 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum. Together, these [b']1.7 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.2 percent of all hourly-paid workers.[/b]

 

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth of workers earning at or below the minimum wage were age 16-19. Among employed teenagers, about 8 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 1 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was about 2 percent. (See table 1 and table 7.)

 

So, yeah, not saying that everying is hunky dory...but let's get all the REAL stats out on the table. Should I look up how many people are actually working 2-3 jobs?

 

If we raise the minimum wage to a living wage, it is quite possible that we will thin the welfare roles considerably, and remove some of the need for expensive social services.

 

and did you see my posts on State and City minimums?

[EL the Famous]

5.2% hold multiple jobs, down from 5.3% last year.

[Good Old Neon]

Good point, B.

 

 

 

So, yeah, not saying that everying is hunky dory...but let's get all the REAL stats out on the table. Should I look up how many people are actually working 2-3 jobs?

 

and did you see my posts on State and City minimums?

 

 

Do you think renting an apartment or owning a home making seven something dollars an hour would be any easier than five something an hour? What if we add even one child to the equation? Could you support your family making $7.25 an hour

[caliber66]

Roughly 16 million people, slightly less than the number that watched the World Series.

I have no idea where you got that number. Even if it's the full 76 million workers who work hourly wages, that only comes out to 3.95 million who work multiple jobs. Until last year, you could have counted me among those, although neither of my two hourly jobs were minimum wage. So we're looking at something more like 3,949,999 people.

 

Surely that's not 5.2% of the entire U.S. population, many of whom wouldn't even be working age anyway.

[Good Old Neon]

The true cost of poverty.

 

One in four U.S. jobs pay less than a poverty-level income. During the 1980s, 13 percent of Americans ages 40 to 50 spent at least one year below the poverty line; by the 1990s, 36 percent did. Since 2000, the number of Americans living below the poverty line at any one time has steadily risen. Now 13 percent of all Americans--37 million--are officially poor. Among households worth less than $13,500, their average net worth in 2001 was $0. By 2004, it was down to -$1,400.

 

Bush's tax cuts (extended until 2010) save those earning between $20,000 and $30,000 an average of $10 a year, while those earning $1 million are saved $42,700. In 2002, Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, compared those who point out statistics such as the one above to Adolf Hitler.

 

Bush has dedicated $750 million to "healthy marriages" by diverting funds from social services, mostly childcare. Bush has proposed cutting housing programs for low-income people with disabilities by 50 percent.

 

Among the working poor, 13 percent of income is spent on commuting if public transportation is used and 21 percent if a private vehicle is used. Workers who earn $45,000 or more spend 2 percent of their income on commuting. Two out of every three new jobs created is in the suburbs. Fifty-eight percent of Boston-area jobs suitable for welfare-to-work participants are within a mile of public transit. Seventy-six percent of Boston welfare moms don't own a car.

 

One in three people who've left welfare since 1996 did so because they couldn't meet program requirements or they hit the five-year limit. One in seven have no work, no spousal support and no other government benefits.

 

Forty-six million Americans are uninsured--a 15 percent increase since 2000. Eighty-three percent of those earning $75,000 or more work for companies that offer insurance, versus 24 percent of those who earn less than $25,000. Fifty-one percent of the uninsured are $2,000 or more in medical debt. Sixteen percent owe at least $10,000. In 1997, three out of four doctors provided some free or reduced-cost care. Now, two out of three do.

 

Two in five elderly live on less than $18,000 a year, including Social Security benefits. Last fall, Minnesota firefighters let an elderly man's mobile home burn down because he hadn't paid a $25 "fire fee."

 

In 2004, 600,000 high school students dropped out. If each had stayed in school for just one more year, the nation would have saved $41.8 billion in lifetime healthcare costs.

 

Two-thirds of the reported "shrinking" gap between white and black men's wages is attributable to black men dropping out of the labor market altogether. The true jobless rate of black men in their 20s without a high school diploma is 72 percent.

 

A prison record reduces a convict's wages by about 15 percent and wage growth by 33 percent. Since 1983, college tuition has risen 115 percent. Fifty two percent of poor college-qualified students go to a four-year college within two years of graduating. Eighty-three percent of richer qualified students do.

 

Corn subsidies have helped the price of soda fall 30 percent since 1983. Meanwhile, the price of fruit has risen 50 percent. Per capita, the National Institute of Health spends $68 on diabetes, which disproportionately affects the poor, and $1,414 on Lyme disease, which is named after a suburb in Connecticut.

 

Sixty-three percent of federal housing subsidies go to households earning more than $77,000; 18 percent go to households earning less than $16,500.

 

Since 1976, the federal budget has doubled, while HUD's budget has declined by 65 percent. Initially an anti-redlining effort, sub-prime mortgages have risen tenfold since 1994. Today, one in four sub-prime lenders are predatory, charging recipients 7 percent in up-front fees. Conventional or "prime" mortgage users are charged only 1 percent. Two percent of prime mortgages carry prepayment penalties; 80 percent of sub-prime ones do.

 

America now has twice as many publicly available gambling devices that take money--slot and video poker machines and electronic lottery outlets--as it has ATMs that dispense it.

 

Credit card late fees are 194 percent higher than in 1994. The average credit card balance for households earning less than $35,000 is $4,000. At 11.5 percent APR, making the standard minimum payment of 2 percent per month, it takes 13 years to pay off a $4,000 balance.

 

One in seven families claim the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), designed to lift the working poor above the poverty line.

 

In 2003, the IRS estimated it "protected" $3.1 billion of revenue by cracking down on EITC filings. Half of all audits are now conducted on taxpayers earning less than $25,000.

Forty-one percent of those making less than $30,000 think there is "a lot" of tension between the rich and the poor. Only 18 percent of those making $100,000 to $150,000 think this.

[OOO]

You're not really going to convince people on this board to agree with you with another long winded quote from a biased source...

[EL the Famous]

You're not really going to convince people on this board to agree with you with another long winded quote from a biased source...

 

...in which a % doesn't seem to a symptom of poverty, but a self-imposed contributor (credit card debt, gambling, prison records, etc.). plus, some of those stats aren't flushed out to justify the picture this is obviously trying to paint (home subsidies for example) and don't acknowledge any of the declines. why did all those kids drop out of high school? because of poverty or...?

 

c'mon, man. i'm posting legitimate census info and you are posting something from a site w/ bohemian in the URL.

[EL the Famous]

Do you think renting an apartment or owning a home making seven something dollars an hour would be any easier than five something an hour? What if we add even one child to the equation? Could you support your family making $7.25 an hour

[EL the Famous]

piling on...

 

US Earnings Average - $19.29 per Hour

Service Workers - $11.31

Management/Professional - $31.45

Sales/Office - $15.46

Production/Transportation/Material Moving - $14.78

 

Occupational Wages in the US, 2006. Interesting reading, especiall ywhen they start to break the jobs in each category down.

[Good Old Neon]

...in which a % doesn't seem to a symptom of poverty, but a self-imposed contributor (credit card debt, gambling, prison records, etc.). plus, some of those stats aren't flushed out to justify the picture this is obviously trying to paint (home subsidies for example) and don't acknowledge any of the declines. why did all those kids drop out of high school? because of poverty or...?

 

c'mon, man. i'm posting legitimate census info and you are posting something from a site w/ bohemian in the URL.

 

Credit card debt and poverty don

[Good Old Neon]

first off, not everybody can or needs to own a full-fledged house/home and anybody who can't afford to raise a family, including kids, should be thinking twice about doing so.

 

you are also sidestepping the fact that you have no data to support of 1 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less aren't making even more than the State or City minimum. do you know what the average wage in the US is?

 

Sometimes kids just happen, and given that you are pro-life, surely you would insist an unwed and/or unprepared couple keep the baby

[Atticus]

Sometimes kids just happen, and given that you are pro-life, surely you would insist an unwed and/or unprepared couple keep the baby

[Spawn's dad]

'life isn't fair'

[EL the Famous]

1. If you

[Good Old Neon]

'life isn't fair'

 

You

[EL the Famous]

You