cryptique Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I actually kinda like the guy -- at least for his willingness to stand up to the U.S. -- but he was angling to become a dictator. Let's hope his apparent respect for the electoral result is genuine. link - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Chavez loses constitutional vote By FRANK BAJAK, Associated Press Writer Humbled by his first electoral defeat ever, President Hugo Chavez said Monday he may have been too ambitious in asking voters to let him stand indefinitely for re-election and endorse a huge leap to a socialist state. "I understand and accept that the proposal I made was quite profound and intense," he said after voters narrowly rejected the sweeping constitutional reforms by 51 percent to 49 percent. Opposition activists were ecstatic as the results were announced shortly after midnight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Doug and I are blown away that you actually wrote that you like that man. Pure mind blowing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I wasn't a bit surprised. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blindgonzo Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 i don't mind Chavez. obviously Venezuela has many problems with electoral fraud, and the elections are not close to being fair, but I think he's the least of the US's problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 This is a good thing. No? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blindgonzo Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 oui! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubs101 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Democracy isn't exactly necessary in every country and big socialist countries makes politics more interesting. I was hoping Putin and Chavez could put form a new club Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 i don't mind Chavez. oh man. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blindgonzo Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 would you like to expand that thought at all?you obviously are not a fan of Chavez, right? any particular reason why? just wondering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 He has taken away private companies.. and gave them to his friends and family to run (for the General good of the State of course)He has taken away freedom of speech, lit, music, religion, education, etc etc Only TV stations operate under his controlHe has overhauled the entire education system gloryfing him and his ideals. He has imprisoned dissidentsHe wants to stop supplying oil to us Big One: He is a major road block for other South American countries to prosper in free trade with us. I am bewildered when actors go visit with him, for they all would be jailed if they wanted to make a movie that goes against his beliefs Don't get me wrong, wwe are far from perfect, and you are right... as of right now he is far down the line for concerns. But he is working his way up.. quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I used to kind of like him, but now he's just another demagogue angling to be the next Fidel Castro. Still, I buy my gas at Citgo as I'd rather see my money go to a commie than a jihadist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Doug and I are blown away that you actually wrote that you like that man. Pure mind blowing.I didn't write that I like him. I wrote that "I actually kinda like the guy -- at least for his willingness to stand up to the U.S. -- but he was angling to become a dictator." In other words, I admire the way that he's refused to knuckle under to the U.S. (specifically the current administration). However, I then went on to point out that he's becoming a dictator. That's a far cry from "I like him." I guess I needed to actually denounce him to pass your test. I guess posting this thread in the first place wasn't good enough, eh? To be clear: I admire a few isolated things about Chavez. I do not "like" him. Oh, if he truly wants to stop supplying the U.S. with oil, what's the problem with that? Oh sure, it would suck for the U.S., and we'd have to fill the gap somehow, but that oil isn't automatically ours when it comes out of the ground. Let him sell it to whomever he wants. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I didn't write that I like him. I wrote that "I actually kinda like the guy -- at least for his willingness to stand up to the U.S. -- but he was angling to become a dictator." In other words, I admire the way that he's refused to knuckle under to the U.S. (specifically the current administration). However, I then went on to point out that he's becoming a dictator. That's a far cry from "I like him." I guess I needed to actually denounce him to pass your test. I guess posting this thread in the first place wasn't good enough, eh? To be clear: I admire a few isolated things about Chavez. I do not "like" him. Oh, if he truly wants to stop supplying the U.S. with oil, what's the problem with that? Oh sure, it would suck for the U.S., and we'd have to fill the gap somehow, but that oil isn't automatically ours when it comes out of the ground. Let him sell it to whomever he wants. ...and I am still blown away that you kinda like him. Stand up to the US against what? The war? Our policy towards Cuba? A free trade between the Americas? What was he supposed to knuckle under for the US? And why this Administration? Why not the last one? Clinton signed NAFTA, he began the big push for free trade between the Americas. I am sorry if I got confused. You said you kinda like him, but he is becoming a dictator. So does that mean you sort of like him? I do not know how you feel about dictators, you never stated that you do not like dictators, I can only gather the info that you write in your posts, and you wrote that you kinda like him. I could assume that you like Kings, and wish that he was going that route. Or maybe you do like his thoughs on Trotskyism, but think he is not spreading the wealth around to enough of his people. You are correct, if he wants to stop selling oil (oil that was once privately owned by private corporations but are now state controlled because he flat out took it from them), to the US he has all the freedom to do so. I think they are third largest supplier to the US for Oil.. maybe second behind Canada? Anyway it would skyrocket the costs, and devastate our Economy. Maybe we should look into drilling our own oil, or perhaps buy oil from Brazil considering they just found a field that will produce close to a billion barrels. Of course your buddies influence is starting to spread, so trading with Brazil may become a lot more difficult than it is already. But its cool, now that I think about it I am glad he is reaping the rewards of capitalism here in our country all while shouting on his soapbox that US is the devil and capitalism is the poison that feeds it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 As long as you bring it up, our policy toward Cuba is el stupido. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 As long as you bring it up, our policy toward Cuba is el stupido. Not least of all for the fact that it essentially allows Castro the opportunity to remain in power and say "Oh, look! I am your provider. If not for me, you would starve thanks to the evil US." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I think somebody just doesn't like Spanish people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 It's interesting that this Golyadkin character is so intent on shouting down anyone who expresses even the slightest admiration for Chavez. Sound like anyone else we know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Sound like anyone else we know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Right... as if America is holding down Cuba. They have open trade with Canada and other nations (only reason Cuban Cigars are special is because of the trade embargo and nothing else) Cuba is a major tourist attraction for Canadians. One man is holding down Cuba. I am not shouting down anyone... I just don't understand how some folks have "admiration" for Chavez. He is literally taking away freedom from his people. I love Spanish people... you guys ever see the movie Desperado? Doug likes girls from Argentina the most! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 It's interesting that this Golyadkin character is so intent on shouting down anyone who expresses even the slightest admiration for Chavez. Sound like anyone else we know? Doug and I are on are own. Again not here to shout. Maybe enlighten.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Right... as if America is holding down Cuba. They have open trade with Canada and other nations (only reason Cuban Cigars are special is because of the trade embargo and nothing else) Cuba is a major tourist attraction for Canadians. One man is holding down Cuba. I am not shouting down anyone... I just don't understand how some folks have "admiration" for Chavez. He is literally taking away freedom from his people. I love Spanish people... you guys ever see the movie Desperado? Doug likes girls from Argentina the most! When the biggest economic power in the region refuses to trade with you then you are being held down by that nation. What I love is the hypocrisy wherein the United States refuses to trade with Cuba because of it's dictatorial regime, and communism and what not, but has it's biggest trading partner be China, which is all of what Cuba is and more. The only difference is we can afford not to trade with Cuba. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 When the biggest economic power in the region refuses to trade with you then you are being held down by that nation. What I love is the hypocrisy wherein the United States refuses to trade with Cuba because of it's dictatorial regime, and communism and what not, but has it's biggest trading partner be China, which is all of what Cuba is and more. The only difference is we can afford not to trade with Cuba. They are being held down by his policies, and his control. I agree with you on the hypocrisy of the US. However, China is making huge changes, they are opening up their markets and becoming more of a capitalist nation, as is Vietnam. Hopefully our western influence in China will get them to have free press and do a 180 on humanity issues. Do note, I call Doug out on hypocrisy all the time, as he does me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 They are being held down by his policies, and his control. I agree with you on the hypocrisy of the US. However, China is making huge changes, they are opening up their markets and becoming more of a capitalist nation, as is Vietnam. Hopefully our western influence in China will get them to have free press and do a 180 on humanity issues. Do note, I call Doug out on hypocrisy all the time, as he does me. We are allowing him to tighten his grip on his people with the embargo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Golyadkin Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 We are allowing him to tighten his grip on his people with the embargo. Maybe, I understand your point... Or it could be that US refuses to do business with him, because when he became in power, he took over US businesses based in Cuba and evicted all US citizens. I lean towards more trade and business. I think that ends more wars and disputes than anything (IE China and Vietnam) Side-note: That is why I think America is imploding. Government has their hand in every business transaction, from .50 cents to 50 billion, the US Gov. is impeding prosperity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 We're also holding back their economy by holding on to Guantanamo, which, if not for our continued control of it, would probably be their most active port. Personally I think America is imploding because big business has its hand in everything the government does, not vice versa. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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