The National vs. Lucinda Williams

[Beltmann]

any of her album is certainly less boring than every album by The National...

I wish somebody had taught me this irrefutable fact earlier... maybe then I wouldn't have wasted 2007 being enthralled by the sounds found on Boxer. Dammit.

[solace]

I wish somebody had taught me this irrefutable fact earlier... maybe then I wouldn't have wasted 2007 being enthralled by the sounds found on Boxer. Dammit.

i know right? hopefully someone can help me see the err of my ways early enough in 2008 to save myself from wasted time.

[Golden Smoghead]

This is apples & oranges, IMO. And I really liked Alligator and think Boxer is good, but not mind-blowing. I preferred the more "up" vibe to Alligator.

 

I didn't enjoy the previews of West on iTunes, so I didn't buy it (gasp away). But Lucinda is one of the best songwriters in a certain genre (nowadays called "Americana" -- once upon a time Wilco was a wannabe band in that vein). The West album wasn't great as far as I can tell, but the random LW disrespect in this thread is off-base. You write a song like "Three Days" or "Passionate Kisses" or "Changed the Locks" or sing a duet with Steve Earle that RULES ("You're Still Standing There"), and THEN you may be qualified to just hatehatehate!

 

Sorry, but it drives me crazy when people don't like something and then assert that nobody else should.

[solace]

This is apples & oranges, IMO.

 

Sorry, but it drives me crazy when people don't like something and then assert that nobody else should.

 

agreed. thus why i didn't even know why The National were brought up in defense of Lucinda in the other thread by Littlebear.

[Golden Smoghead]

agreed. thus why i didn't even know why The National were brought up in defense of Lucinda in the other thread by Littlebear.

AH my bad.

[Calexico]

It pained me deeply but I had to vote for Boxer being a better album than Lu's. I love Lu so much but this release didn't grab me at all. Some of it is excellent but a lot of it feels almost contractual obligation, even though it probably isn't. Oh well, a patchy album...everyone has some of those. She will always have a place in my heart for Blue and Lake Charles alone.

[LouieB]

But Lucinda is one of the best songwriters in a certain genre (nowadays called "Americana" --

It used to be called "country" but of course just like the term "liberal" you can't use that term anymore....

 

LouieB

[imsjry]

I can't believe the hate for "West". When it came out and people were dissing it I thought, certainly people will come around to this like most did with Sky Blue Sky. I think it is one of the top 5 discs of the year for sure. I love the beat-poetry/alt country vibe on it and can't understand fans of hers NOT liking it.

 

The National? I don't get them much at all. I think the lyrics are borderline laughable and the singing way too uber-serious.

[cryptique]

The National? I don't get them much at all. I think the lyrics are borderline laughable

...and yet you like West?

[solace]

lol... no doubt.

 

please try and defend the lyrics to "What If" off West... you can't

 

i think Beringer is one of the best lyricists post '00 honestly... what's so laughable about them? they're not obvious and at times somewhat obtuse, but so was Dylan...

[Calexico]

Although not from Boxer, how can you not love these lyrics?

 

 

 

Karen, we should call your father, maybe it's just a phase

He'll know the trick to get a wayward soul to change his ways

It's a common fetish for a doting man

to ballerina on the coffee table cock in hand

[Littlebear]

Honestly, I'm listening to A LOT of English-speaking music of many sorts, and I did never care for lyrics. They're always secondary to me. And the fact I'm French isn't really for something, as it's pretty much the same in French-speaking music for me. The difference being, of course, than I can make the difference between a great lyricist and an average one, when it comes to French. But I don't care, since I can easily pick average lyricists who make good music over great lyricists who bore me as hell. I love songs since I was born, for the music, the beat, the vibe (lyrics included - since they are "sounds", too).

 

Thinking of it, even when it comes to poetry to read, I'm more focused on the music of the words and the rhythm of the lines, than the quality of the metaphores, or the richness of vocabulary.

 

Lucinda Williams may be an inspired lyricist at times, but I don't love her work for that. Of course I prefer good lyrics to bad ones, but it doesn't bug me that much when the lyrics are "ok" or "bad", as long as the music works.

 

Some of her lyrics on West are bad? Maybe: I don't mind. On the other hand, someone here said her voice was bad on this album, and it's 100% unfair: her voice is superb on that album, to the contrary of most of her live acts these days.

 

Lucinda came to play in Paris (unfortunately - for her - in times of a strike in November), but I didn't go to see her. I think her live performances are bad, if not awful (I saw a lot of them on You Tube). And it hurts me to say so, as I LOVE her and am a fan. But I'm a honest fan: I won't say she's good when she's bad.

 

(I say the same for Dylan, on a side note).

 

On the other hand, West is a truly beautiful album. Well-produced and far better than World without Tears. "Come On", for example (from West) is superior to "Real Live Bleeding Fingers" or the unbearable "Atonement" (from WWT). I would recommend to hear it on the headphones. It's certainly not novative, but it rules and it rocks.

 

The weakness of West may be that it's a bit too long. But boring it's not. Unless, of course, you listen with your heart off.

[Analogman]

The heck with that, you live in France!

[imsjry]

lol... no doubt.

 

please try and defend the lyrics to "What If" off West... you can't

 

i think Beringer is one of the best lyricists post '00 honestly... what's so laughable about them? they're not obvious and at times somewhat obtuse, but so was Dylan...

 

That song about bringing her a cold drink and doing a slow dance for her....what's up with that? It isn't even romantic.

[solace]

That song about bringing her a cold drink and doing a slow dance for her....what's up with that? It isn't even romantic.

 

are you talking about Slow Show by chance?

 

if so:

 

Standing at the punch table swallowing punch

can't pay attention to the sound of anyone

a little more stupid, a little more scared

every minute more unprepared

 

I made a mistake in my life today

everything I love gets lost in drawers

I want to start over, I want to be winning

way out of sync from the beginning

 

I wanna hurry home to you

put on a slow, dumb show for you

and crack you up

so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain

god I'm very, very frightening

I'll overdo it

 

Looking for somewhere to stand and stay

I leaned on the wall and the wall leaned away

Can I get a minute of not being nervous

and not thinking of my dick

My leg is sparkles, my leg is pins

I better get my shit together, better gather my shit in

You could drive a car through my head in five minutes

from one side of it to the other

 

I wanna hurry home to you

put on a slow, dumb show for you

and crack you up

so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain

god I'm very, very frightening

I'll overdo it

 

You know I dreamed about you

for twenty-nine years before I saw you

You know I dreamed about you

I missed you for

for twenty-nine years

 

You know I dreamed about you

for twenty-nine years before I saw you

You know I dreamed about you

I missed you for

for twenty-nine years

 

i will say flat out, that the line "You know i dreamed about you, for twenty-nine years before i saw you" is one of my favorite lines on the album, and one of my favorite lines this year honestly, and not just because i can relate personally.

 

this verse is also totally relatable and says a lot to me:

 

Looking for somewhere to stand and stay

I leaned on the wall and the wall leaned away

Can I get a minute of not being nervous

and not thinking of my dick

My leg is sparkles, my leg is pins

I better get my shit together, better gather my shit in

You could drive a car through my head in five minutes

from one side of it to the other

not necessarily that i relate to it personally, but have a couple of guy friends who this verse describes to a T.

 

what constitutes good and bad lyrics is often very subjective, i realize that. but I can tell you that as much as I love The National, a HUGE chunk of their draw for me, going back to '03 w/ Sad Songs is their lyrics, so if someone else doesn't find them all that great or relateable, then i can understand that being a huge chunk of what i love so much about the band thrown out the window. that said, I still find them very creative and inventive (and thankfully oftentimes very subtly) musically. i like music and hooks that don't always beat you over the head* with it or in the case of lyrics, aren't super obvious.

 

* i still love my fair share of super hooky pop too mind you.

[Beltmann]

Side note: "Slow Show" is featured in the current trailer for Snow Angels, the new David Gordon Green movie.

[imsjry]

 

are you talking about Slow Show by chance?

 

OK, so after READING the lyrics I have to say they are quite good. Maybe I'll spend some more time with "The Boxer". However, "West" is still one of my top discs of the year.

[Guest Jules]

I just watched Lucinda Williams' ACL performance. What a sorry excuse for a live show.

[Jesusetc84]

The Boxer is a great record. I dunno if it's genius, but it's one of the few records I connected with this year.

 

Still haven't heard the new Lucinda...probably won't :-(.

[loraaw]

When I got West earlier this year, it bored me. Then my Nano broke and I had West in my car CD player for a week - and now it's become one of my favorite CDs of the year. It kinda crept up on me. "If" is probalby my favorite song on it.

 

As for "stupid lyrics" --- I think some of the best songs lyrically can look "stupid" typed out without their context (the music, the sincerity of the vocals) behind them, including Jeff's. I always laugh when he rhymes "C" with "sea" in Shot in the Arm.

 

So yeah, give West a few more spins.

 

- Laura

[evol79]

I like both albums for ENTIRELY different reasons.

[Jesusetc84]

When I got West earlier this year, it bored me. Then my Nano broke and I had West in my car CD player for a week - and now it's become one of my favorite CDs of the year. It kinda crept up on me. "If" is probalby my favorite song on it.

 

As for "stupid lyrics" --- I think some of the best songs lyrically can look "stupid" typed out without their context (the music, the sincerity of the vocals) behind them, including Jeff's. I always laugh when he rhymes "C" with "sea" in Shot in the Arm.

 

So yeah, give West a few more spins.

 

- Laura

 

but "followed me down the neck to D" is really nice :-).

 

I need to check out West...as a guy who lived in Louisiana for his entire adulthood, Car Wheels will always be one of my favorite records ever. I'm incredibly guilty of not having explored Lucinda as an artist beyond that record though.

[cryptique]

I need to check out West...as a guy who lived in Louisiana for his entire adulthood, Car Wheels will always be one of my favorite records ever. I'm incredibly guilty of not having explored Lucinda as an artist beyond that record though.

Whatever you do, don't start that exploration with West.

[Littlebear]

Whatever you do, don't start that exploration with West.

 

I'm pretty sure it made new fans of Lucinda.

 

Example of a review taken from a famous site (where we buy CDs) :

 

"This is the first album I purchased by Lucinda Williams and I was blown away after the first listen- it is wonderful! The raw, dark, heartfelt lyrics, the musical arrangements and the recording quality all lead me to one conclusion- best album for 2007. Every song is a winner here. I need to get some more Lucinda Williams music now! Wow!" (October 28, 2007)

 

(and no, this isn't me)

[cryptique]

I'm pretty sure it made new fans of Lucinda.

My recommendation stands.