18 Shot at Northern Illinois U., DeKalb Campus

[Edie]

I know many alums and people whose kids go there now. All of the victims seem to be from the Chicago suburbs. What a tragedy.

 

Apparently, the shooter stopped taking his medication, though they don't say what or what it was prescribed for. Also, two of the guns found on him were purchased legally within the last week.

[radiokills]

its like someone hit the self destruct button a while ago, and now its slowly taking effect.

[bobbob1313]

This hit me a lot harder than I thought it would...

[Analogman]

Gunman's friendly exterior masked past

 

By ASHLEY M. HEHER and CARYN ROUSSEAU, Associated Press Writers 20 minutes ago

 

DEKALB, Ill. - Steven Kazmierczak checked into a hotel near Northern Illinois University three days before his deadly shooting spree at the campus, paying cash and signing in under only his first name, the hotel manager said Saturday.

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Kazmierczak was last seen at the Travelodge on Tuesday, hotel manager Jay Patel said. Cigarette butts, empty energy drink and cold medicine containers littered the room Friday.

 

Authorities found a duffel bag, with the zippers glued shut, that Kazmierczak had left in the room, DeKalb police Lt. Gary Spangler said. A bomb squad safely opened the bag Friday, he said.

 

The Chicago Tribune reported Saturday that investigators found ammunition inside the bag, citing law enforcement sources. Spangler would not comment on what was in the bag.

 

Kazmierczak also left a laptop computer, which was seized by investigators, Patel told The Associated Press.

 

"It's scary," said Patel, adding that he called police when he found the laptop and clothes.

 

The discoveries added to the puzzles surrounding Kazmierczak, a 27-year-old graduate student some called quiet, dependable and fun-loving. He returned to his alma mater on Valentine's Day and killed five people before turning a gun on himself.

 

A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said Kazmierczak's parents placed him there after high school. She said he used to cut himself, and had resisted taking his medications.

 

He had a short-lived stint as a prison guard that ended abruptly when he didn't show up for work. He also was in the Army for about six months in 2001-02, but he told a friend he'd gotten a psychological discharge.

 

Exactly what set Kazmierczak off

[Papillon Parade]

I know many alums and people whose kids go there now. All of the victims seem to be from the Chicago suburbs. What a tragedy.

 

Apparently, the shooter stopped taking his medication, though they don't say what or what it was prescribed for. Also, two of the guns found on him were purchased legally within the last week.

 

Apparently he bought them from the same company that sold guns to the Virginia Tech killer.

 

Just how many innocent people have to be killed before the gun laws are changed? The sad part is that even if guns were banned, there would still be people out there making and selling them for profit illegally regardless of how many people they kill.

[bjorn_skurj]

Apparently he bought them from the same company that sold guns to the Virginia Tech killer.

 

Just how many innocent people have to be killed before the gun laws are changed? The sad part is that even if guns were banned, there would still be people out there making and selling them for profit illegally regardless of how many people they kill.

With a gun for just about every American, I think the genie's really out of the bottle in terms of gun control. Frankly, I don't want a government with the power it would need to take everybody's gun away - a beast that would make Nazi Germany look like the Berkeley City Council. We have a much better chance to cut down on these kinds of things by beefing up mental illness treatment.

[Tweedling]

We have a much better chance to cut down on these kinds of things by beefing up mental illness treatment.

I agree with this, but I don't think the answer is with more drugs.

[bjorn_skurj]

I agree with this, but I don't think the answer is with more drugs.

I was going to make a joke, but this is not a jokey thread.

[ikol]

I agree with this, but I don't think the answer is with more drugs.

 

It depends on the mental illness. With schizophrenia, drugs are pretty much the only thing that works.

[Papillon Parade]

With a gun for just about every American, I think the genie's really out of the bottle in terms of gun control. Frankly, I don't want a government with the power it would need to take everybody's gun away - a beast that would make Nazi Germany look like the Berkeley City Council. We have a much better chance to cut down on these kinds of things by beefing up mental illness treatment.

I agree, one problem with that though is keeping these people in treatment. This guy went off his medication which is what they are blaming his behaviour on. Not to mention the gun deaths as a result of gang violence, domestic disturbances and home invasions. These are more a case of rage and a lack of self control rather than mental illness. It's an enormous issue that has completely spiraled out of control, so much so that there may be no hope of reconstruction.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I agree, one problem with that though is keeping these people in treatment. This guy went off his medication which is what they are blaming his behaviour on. Not to mention the gun deaths as a result of gang violence, domestic disturbances and home invasions. These are more a case of rage and a lack of self control rather than mental illness. It's an enormous issue that has completely spiraled out of control, so much so that there may be no hope of reconstruction.

 

Am I the only person that is absolutely sickened by how they are sensationalizing the fact that he went off his medication? While it very much could have caused his actions, headlines from the AP like, "NIU Killer Went Off Meds Days Before Attack" do an extraordinary disservice to the mental health community, implying that if, say, your mother were to let her scrip for Lexapro lapse a day or two, she too may very well lob off your arms with an ax.

 

IF his lapse in meds caused his behavior, then his meds were treating a disorder associated with violent symptoms. The fact that they have not yet disclosed what illnesses he was or was not being treated for, in conjunction with the fact that they have indeed disclosed that he was taking medication to treat a mental illness, only further stigmatizes those suffering from mental illnesses.

 

Yes, the truth will come out and we will know either what he was being treated for or perhaps even why he did this. But you really can't undo media sensationalism

 

It's hard to get people to continue to take their meds, particularly people with illnesses that can make them averse to medication - schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. It's even harder to diagnose and treat people when they don't want to be (or their parents don't want them to be) 'that kid on meds who could go apeshit.'

 

I guess I just wish they had waited until they could say, "He stopped taking ____, which he was taking to treat ______, a disorder with symptoms including obsessions often violent in nature."

[bjorn_skurj]

In the past, the mentally ill were removed completely from society, placed in gigantic institutions from where it was really hard to win release. That came to be considered inhumane; that it was hella expensive too played a part in the shift to community-based solutions. The advancement of medication made a lot of this possible. The guy's girlfriend said he had been taking antidepressants, which he stopped because they made him "feel like a zombie." My sense is that this guy had recognizable problems, but they didn't seem severe enough to warrant closer monitoring. There was also this from the story:

 

Police confiscated several items. Among them was a copy of Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Antichrist" which Kazmierczak sent to Baty after the shooting. The police also took Kazmierczak's copy of the "Encyclopedia of Serial Killers."

[bobbob1313]

The only way to have prevented this would have been if one of the students in the class had a gun on him for protection. I'm not sure if I want that happening, but it's the truth.

 

And "Media sensationalism" makes me laugh, in this instance. I was discussing with people at the paper how little a deal this is being made relative to the Virginia Tech shootings. I felt the media has done a good job of policing itself with regards to baseless speculation. If the guy went off medication, it is the media's job to report that. They aren't trying to demonize people with mental illness.

[caliber66]

Police confiscated several items. Among them was a copy of Friedrich Nietzsche's "The Antichrist" which Kazmierczak sent to Baty after the shooting. The police also took Kazmierczak's copy of the "Encyclopedia of Serial Killers."

I don't understand that part. He killed himself during the shooting, so how did he do anything after? I guess maybe the other person received it afterwards?

[Good Old Neon]

The only way to have prevented this would have been if one of the students in the class had a gun on him for protection. I'm not sure if I want that happening, but it's the truth.

 

And "Media sensationalism" makes me laugh, in this instance. I was discussing with people at the paper how little a deal this is being made relative to the Virginia Tech shootings. I felt the media has done a good job of policing itself with regards to baseless speculation. If the guy went off medication, it is the media's job to report that. They aren't trying to demonize people with mental illness.

 

Or a more thorough background check that would place greater restrictions on those who have been treated for mental illness.

 

I'm not sure a classroom full of fully armed students is the solution.

[bobbob1313]

Or a more thorough background check that would place greater restrictions on those who have been treated for mental illness.

 

I'm not sure a classroom full of fully armed students is the solution.

 

I'm not sure it is the solution either, but it would have prevented this.

 

I'm of the opinion that the only way to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen is either making sure nobody has guns, or everyone has guns. Neither is feasible, so we have to do what we can to make things like this less likely to happen with more background checks and tighter regulations.

[Guest Speed Racer]

They aren't trying to demonize people with mental illness.

 

They aren't, but in the sound bites and headlines generated in early reporting, there was a chasm between the medication and any sort of reasonable explanation. I'm sorry but, "Killer Recently Stopped Taking Meds," followed by an article making no other mention of mental illness and rehashing the killing again, isn't exactly doing a service to the mental health industry either.

 

I shouldn't have used the phrase "media sensationalism," but I felt that the early reports of the medication lapse were sort of the beginning of a sentence they really should have had the end to before they made it a headline - and it's not even a hard sentence to finish.

 

Or a more thorough background check that would place greater restrictions on those who have been treated for mental illness.

 

Wow. The only way to show up on a background check is to be treated in the first place. Therefore, those who seek treatment are punished, and those who are not being treated for their illness can live without restrictions. People who don't want to show up on background checks therefore won't get treated, and that will help how...?

 

Edit: Unless, you're talking about restrictions for gun purchasing? In which case I entirely agree with you. I don't care if she's never exhibited violent symptoms before, I still don't want my bipolar acquaintance to head down to the gun shop when she's manic.

[Good Old Neon]

I'm not sure it is the solution either, but it would have prevented this.

 

I'm of the opinion that the only way to make sure stuff like this doesn't happen is either making sure nobody has guns, or everyone has guns. Neither is feasible, so we have to do what we can to make things like this less likely to happen with more background checks and tighter regulations.

 

A law that would put tighter restrictions on folks treated for mental illness, say, an additional thirty day waiting period, might help decrease the chance of this sort of tragedy from occurring. A 30 day waiting period plus physician notification may further help reduce the likelihood of this sort of thing occurring. Had this person been required to wait 30 days to purchase a fire arm, this may never have happened - thirty days may have allowed those close to him to see he was seriously disturbed, and could have led to further medical treatment.

 

If everyone is armed, persons who are determined to do this sort of thing will just seek different means, say, a vest full of explosives. Arming everyone may simply result in a personal arms race of sorts.

 

The sad fact is, there is very little anyone can really do to avert these sorts of shooting sprees. This may sound callous, but folks have always and will continue to go off the handle, just hope you

[bobbob1313]

Did he buy any of the guns with 30 days of the shooting?

[Guest Speed Racer]

Did he buy any of the guns with 30 days of the shooting?

 

From today's SunTimes:

While he was going to the U. of I. last year, Kazmierczak started building his cache of weapons, according to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

 

Less than two weeks ago, on Feb. 6, he bought a Remington 12-gauge Model 870 shotgun and a Glock 9mm pistol. He picked them up Feb. 9, authorities said.

[bjorn_skurj]

I don't understand that part. He killed himself during the shooting, so how did he do anything after? I guess maybe the other person received it afterwards?

A good editor would have caught that, but all the good editors usually get Sunday night off.

[bjorn_skurj]

I shouldn't have used the phrase "media sensationalism," but I felt that the early reports of the medication lapse were sort of the beginning of a sentence they really should have had the end to before they made it a headline - and it's not even a hard sentence to finish.

It's OK. We in the media are every bit as rotten as you imagine, and a bit more on top.

[bobbob1313]

It's OK. We in the media are every bit as rotten as you imagine, and a bit more on top.

 

In all fairness, alot of times editors are restricted in the headlines they can make by the space given them by designers.

[bjorn_skurj]

In all fairness, alot of times editors are restricted in the headlines they can make by the space given them by designers.

Headlines and nuance do not often mix.

[bobbob1313]

Headlines and nuance do not often mix.

 

By their very nature they can't, can they?

 

I hate writing headlines.