Obama's speech on race

[lamradio]

I'm still seeking restitution for the evils done to my distant ancestors from the Pleistocene epoch

[MrRain422]

Yes, because you are feeling those affects equally as much as those who were legally discriminated against within their own lifetimes and are only a few generations removed from slavery.

[lamradio]

Yes, because you are feeling those affects equally as much as those who were legally discriminated against within their own lifetimes and are only a few generations removed from slavery.

 

My great grandmother is full blooded native american (Osage to be exact).. I don't feel any affects from their troubles of the 17 and 1800's..

[MrRain422]

Hence my sarcasm.

[ikol]

Huh. My ancestors were not slave owners, but were wealthy northerners at the time of the civil war. So I was not exactly unfairly affected by what happened to my ancestors -- in fact it's been pretty nice for me. I still believe that those that were unfairly affected to have that unfairness be acknowledged at minimum.

 

Has there ever been an official apology for the fact that slavery was legal in the US? I don't think there has been....

 

My point was that no one chooses their ancestors, and just the fact that their status puts us at an advantage or disadvantage is unfair. Trying to have the government correct those injustices just adds to the problem.

 

 

So black people should just accept the fact that they are still suffering due to earlier injustices (as well as current ones) and never complain? Just accept that because there was slavery 150 years ago and Jim Crow 40 years ago that their children will not get good educations, will not get a fair shake in the legal system, and will live and die poor? And while accepting this, they should be grateful for America's history and never comment on wrongs done in America's name? I know you didn't say that explicitly, but if that's not your meaning in relation to the Rev. Wright affair and Obama's speech, then I'm not really sure what your meaning is.

 

That's not at all what I was saying. They can complain all they want, but moving forward and even forgiving those that wronged them might be more beneficial. I wasn't directly addressing Wright in my post, but as a Christian preacher he should be following the example of Christ and be willing to forgive "white America" instead of spreading hate with conspiracy theories and racially-charged tirades.

 

My great grandmother is full blooded native american (Osage to be exact).. I don't feel any affects from their troubles of the 17 and 1800's..

 

Try harder.

[MrRain422]

That's not at all what I was saying. They can complain all they want, but moving forward and even forgiving those that wronged them might be more beneficial. I wasn't directly addressing Wright in my post, but as a Christian preacher he should be following the example of Christ and be willing to forgive "white America" instead of spreading hate with conspiracy theories and racially-charged tirades.

 

They can forgive all they want, but that still won't improve their situation at all. How do you think that the problem should be corrected? Or should nothing be done to correct racial inequalities? Also, I didn't hear any hate in Rev. Wright's words, just anger. They're not the same thing.

 

And what about the equalities that exist directly because of government actions (like in the justice system)? Shouldn't we at least be working to correct racial inequalities that exist within government itself?

[lamradio]

I wasn't directly addressing Wright in my post, but as a Christian preacher he should be following the example of Christ and be willing to forgive "white America" instead of spreading hate with conspiracy theories and racially-charged tirades.

 

Very well said.

 

I mean yes, Obama condemned his statements to save his ass, but personally it would take me a little less than 20 years to figure out that Wright is a nut-job.. But that's just me..

[MrRain422]

Very well said.

 

I mean yes, Obama condemned his statements to save his ass, but personally it would take me a little less than 20 years to figure out that Wright is a nut-job.. But that's just me..

 

You seem to know an awful lot about Rev. Wright based on, what, 3 minutes of video that you saw?

[lamradio]

You seem to know an awful lot about Rev. Wright based on, what, 3 minutes of video that you saw?

 

I'm that good!

 

No really, refering ikol's post:

 

but as a Christian preacher he should be following the example of Christ and be willing to forgive "white America" instead of spreading hate with conspiracy theories and racially-charged tirades.

 

Jesus even forgave the very people that executed him..

[MrRain422]

Forgiveness =/= ignoring history and the remnants of it. Sorry. Forgiveness for past sins does not mean ignoring the injustices that still exist.

 

Please clarify your position, because here is what I am understanding it to be: "Black people: Get over it. Things are still unequal, but tough shit. We're not going to do anything about it, so shut up and live your unequal lives happily."

 

And I have no idea what Jesus would think of Reverand Wright. Neither do you. And it's irrelevent anyway.

[ikol]

They can forgive all they want, but that still won't improve their situation at all.

 

I strongly disagree with that.

 

How do you think that the problem should be corrected? Or should nothing be done to correct racial inequalities?

 

Depends on what racial inequalities you are referring to, but in general improving education would go a long way. I would do this through school choice and vouchers, but that's just me.

 

Also, I didn't hear any hate in Rev. Wright's words, just anger. They're not the same thing.

 

I would be more than just angry if the government engineered AIDS and crack to oppress my race.

 

And what about the equalities that exist directly because of government actions (like in the justice system)? Shouldn't we at least be working to correct racial inequalities that exist within government itself?

 

Give me an example of the inequalities to which you are referring.

[Good Old Neon]

Racism, prejudice, tribalism, etc, is a part of human nature, blacks included, and, in all likelihood, is not going away any time soon. The government, through affirmative action, etc, can, to some extent, help offset some of the barriers created by racism, but, at some point, and I

[cryptique]

Yes, in a way it is.. Not just black preachers, but anyone that believes that they have to be separated or recieve special attention. That's the problem! We are all human, we are all equal.

So the victims of racism bring it on themselves. Gotcha.

 

I suppose white people are completely blameless, then?

[ikol]

So the victims of racism bring it on themselves. Gotcha.

 

I suppose white people are completely blameless, then?

 

Are you saying that being a victim of racism prevents one from also being a racist?

[cryptique]

Are you saying that being a victim of racism prevents one from also being a racist?

No. But Lamrod seems to think that racism is the fault of its victims.

[lamradio]

No. But Lamrod seems to think that racism is the fault of its victims.

 

In a way, it is.. Just how racist white people make themselves look like jackasses.. I mean, yes, a black person can be the victim of a hate crime, and it's by far not their fault.. But from a big picture perspective, until people of all colors stop singling themselves out, there will always be racism..

 

When I see Rev. Wright or others so angry and spreading hate, I wonder "geeze, this is the 21st centery.. get over it.. let's just love each other damnit!"

[MrRain422]

Give me an example of the inequalities to which you are referring.

 

 

Sure.

 

Black people are sentenced to prison at a higher rate than white people who committed the same crime, and black people who are sent to prison get longer sentences on average than white people who committed the same crime. To give just one example, a 1998 study by the Pennsylvania State Correctional System found that white men aged 18-29 were 38% less likely to be sentenced to prison than black men of the same age group, and those that were sentenced to prison received an average of 3 months shorter sentence.

 

Black murderers are also more likely to receive the death penalty. A 1994 Congressional report found that "although three-quarters of the people convicted under a drug kingpin law between 1988 and 1994 (during this period, this drug kingpin statute contained the only federal death penalty) were white and only 24% of the defendants were black, the state nevertheless chose to pursue death penalty prosecutions overwhelmingly against blacks: 78% of defendants were black, and only 11% of defendants were white (an additional 11% were Latino)."

 

A Department of Justice study found that between 1995 and 2000, the DOJ found that white murderers in federal cases received pre-trial waivers for the death penalty in a plea agreement at a rate of 48% while minority defendents did only 25% of the time. Furthermore, U.S. attorneys were almost twice as likely to recommend the death penalty against a black defendent who killed a non-black person (36%) as opposed to those who killed another black person (20%).

 

This is all stuff I found in about 10 minutes of skimming. There is a ton more out there. A great resource is www.sentencingproject.org

 

When I see Rev. Wright or others so angry and spreading hate, I wonder "geeze, this is the 21st centery.. get over it.. let's just love each other damnit!"

 

But saying "get over it" assumes that it is all in the past. How can people get over something that they are still experiencing every single day?

[cryptique]

When I see Rev. Wright or others so angry and spreading hate, I wonder "geeze, this is the 21st centery.. get over it.. let's just love each other damnit!"

Easy for you to say, whitey.

[lamradio]

Well, racism certainly won't be gone in my lifetime.. Or my childrens lifetime. But one day, according to the physicist Michio Kaku, we will be a type ll civilization and racism will be a thing of the past..

[cryptique]

Is Michio Kaku also promising jetpacks?

 

Because I want a jetpack.

[lamradio]

Is Michio Kaku also promising jetpacks?

 

Because I want a jetpack.

 

Hell yes cryptique.. And interplanetary travel will be a reality!

[Mr. Kinsley]

"geeze, this is the 21st centery.. get over it.. let's just love each other damnit!"

[ikol]

Sure.

 

Black people are sentenced to prison at a higher rate than white people who committed the same crime, and black people who are sent to prison get longer sentences on average than white people who committed the same crime. To give just one example, a 1998 study by the Pennsylvania State Correctional System found that white men aged 18-29 were 38% less likely to be sentenced to prison than black men of the same age group, and those that were sentenced to prison received an average of 3 months shorter sentence.

 

Black murderers are also more likely to receive the death penalty. A 1994 Congressional report found that "although three-quarters of the people convicted under a drug kingpin law between 1988 and 1994 (during this period, this drug kingpin statute contained the only federal death penalty) were white and only 24% of the defendants were black, the state nevertheless chose to pursue death penalty prosecutions overwhelmingly against blacks: 78% of defendants were black, and only 11% of defendants were white (an additional 11% were Latino)."

 

A Department of Justice study found that between 1995 and 2000, the DOJ found that white murderers in federal cases received pre-trial waivers for the death penalty in a plea agreement at a rate of 48% while minority defendents did only 25% of the time. Furthermore, U.S. attorneys were almost twice as likely to recommend the death penalty against a black defendent who killed a non-black person (36%) as opposed to those who killed another black person (20%).

 

This is all stuff I found in about 10 minutes of skimming. There is a ton more out there. A great resource is www.sentencingproject.org

 

Fair enough. My solution is to abolish the death penalty and decriminalize drugs. What's yours?

[cryptique]

Fair enough. My solution is to abolish the death penalty and decriminalize drugs. What's yours?

I'm with you on that.

 

Too bad it'll never happen -- it makes too much sense.

[Mr. Kinsley]

I'm fine with legalizing some drugs (pot comes immediately to mind) but do we really want legalized heroin out there?