Obama's speech on race

[Beltmann]

when it is constantly made an issue in situations where race is irrelevant.

Thing is, "relevance" is often determined by point-of-view.

[EL the Famous]

Race is an issue that white people, frankly, can afford to not pay attention to, and that's quite a luxury.

 

i can't put my finger on it, but there is something about that statement that doesn't sit well w/ me.

[Mr. Kinsley]

What he's trying to say is that white people are luxurious.

[Atticus]

Thing is, "relevance" is often determined by point-of-view.

 

true, but as someone who works in a firm that has to defend companies in employment disputes, I can say from first hand experience that it is all too often claimed as relevant when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the situation.

 

I'm not trying to state for a minute that racism doesn't exist or that it's no longer a problem. But I think that certain people who claim to want to fix the problem seem to perpetuate the problem for their own self-promotion, or make their entire world about race. Neither is helpful to the issue.

[EL the Famous]

What he's trying to say is that white people are luxurious.

 

well, true that. carry on, white kids!

 

I'm not trying to state for a minute that racism doesn't exist or that it's no longer a problem. But I think that certain people who claim to want to fix the problem seem to perpetuate the problem for their own self-promotion, or make their entire world about race. Neither is helpful to the issue.

 

absolutely.

[mountain bed]

i can't put my finger on it, but there is something about that statement that doesn't sit well w/ me.

I feel like I need further clarification or something. The race issue might not be a 24/7 thing for most, but it's always around. Unfortunately.

[bjorn_skurj]

i can't put my finger on it, but there is something about that statement that doesn't sit well w/ me.

Well, first, it's not entirely true. There are plenty of instances where white people have to think about race. What I was aiming for was something more like being white is rarely a disadvantage in our society.

I wish we could be color-blind in this society, but we can't. When emancipation happened, many, many blacks were in the lowest rung of society. Going on 150 years later, a lot of black people have moved up the ladder. A lot haven't. Is there something systematic about that failure that's society's fault, is it solely due to individual failure, or is it a mix of both? I don't know. My personal theory is that black families haven't had a chance yet to accumulate the kind of multigenerational wealth that white families have, and the poorer educational infrastructure in urban areas where a lot of minorities live tends to discourage respect for education itself. (I see a lack of respect for education and learning in a home as a pretty good predictor of how kids raised in that home will turn out.)

The question that remains is what is the obligation of present-day white Americans to present-day black Americans? None? Reparations? Affirmative action? 40 acres and a mule? I don't have the big answer to that one. I may have been on the losing end of affirmative action once, and I give black people who ask me for small amounts of money a small amount of money. (I do this for some, but not all, white people.) Have I done my part to redress the grievances justly lodged against my ancestors? It's a tricky question.

[bobbob1313]

I've always struggled with whether or not today's whites should have to pay for the ills of their ancestors. I'm not sure. It doesn't seem fair either way.

[cryptique]

I've always struggled with whether or not today's whites should have to pay for the ills of their ancestors. I'm not sure. It doesn't seem fair either way.

I assume you're talking about the idea of reparations for slavery?

 

Personally, I don't believe that monetary reparations make sense, and I wouldn't support that. I am not against providing some kind of extra boost to the descendants of slaves -- that's why I've always supported affirmative action. But of course, the courts have been chipping away at that lately. Ann Arbor's been a battleground on that issue.

[MrRain422]

I'm not trying to state for a minute that racism doesn't exist or that it's no longer a problem. But I think that certain people who claim to want to fix the problem seem to perpetuate the problem for their own self-promotion, or make their entire world about race. Neither is helpful to the issue.

 

Is this what Rev. Wright was doing? Self-promoting?

[EL the Famous]

I've always struggled with whether or not today's whites should have to pay for the ills of their ancestors. I'm not sure. It doesn't seem fair either way.

 

i don't struggle with it at all.

[MrRain422]

I can understand why it wouldn't seem fair. But black people are still at a disadvantage as a direct result of slavery, Jim Crow, etc. and that sure as hell doesn't seem fair either.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

At the risk of being a broken record, I like Stanley Hauerwas's take on the subject:

 

My deepest criticism of liberalism is the loss of memory..."America," he explains, "in some ways stands for the utopian dream that you can shape a people who share nothing in common into some kind of workable social order if you just have enough money and fair legal procedures. And therefore, you get to describe your life as a free individual, and, Oh, by the way, I just happen to be African American, I happen to be Jewish, I happen to be Czechoslovakian. Americans keep saying, 'What the fuck do these blacks want? You can move to the suburbs, have three TVs

[Analogman]

Dave Chappelle - Reparations For Slavery sketch

[mountain bed]

Dave Chappelle - Reparations For Slavery sketch

This just in: Colin Powell has just bitch-slapped Dick Cheney.

[bjorn_skurj]

Dave Chappelle - Reparations For Slavery sketch

"Tron."

[ikol]

I can understand why it wouldn't seem fair. But black people are still at a disadvantage as a direct result of slavery, Jim Crow, etc. and that sure as hell doesn't seem fair either.

 

But everyone is unfairly affected by what happened to their ancestors. Trying to have the government come in and correct it just adds to the injustice.

[Edie]

But everyone is unfairly affected by what happened to their ancestors. Trying to have the government come in and correct it just adds to the injustice.

 

Huh. My ancestors were not slave owners, but were wealthy northerners at the time of the civil war. So I was not exactly unfairly affected by what happened to my ancestors -- in fact it's been pretty nice for me. I still believe that those that were unfairly affected to have that unfairness be acknowledged at minimum.

 

Has there ever been an official apology for the fact that slavery was legal in the US? I don't think there has been....

[Analogman]

But everyone is unfairly affected by what happened to their ancestors. Trying to have the government come in and correct it just adds to the injustice.

 

Exactly

[lamradio]

Is this what Rev. Wright was doing? Self-promoting?

 

Yes, and spreading hate.. The day that people like Wright or Jesse Jackson or others stop seperating black people from white people and spreading the hate, is the day that racism stops. If everyone would just shut up about racism, it wouldn't excist.. Why do black people need special rights, and why do companies have to have diversity programs, affirmative action etc... Separation is the root of the problem.

[MrRain422]

But everyone is unfairly affected by what happened to their ancestors. Trying to have the government come in and correct it just adds to the injustice.

 

So black people should just accept the fact that they are still suffering due to earlier injustices (as well as current ones) and never complain? Just accept that because there was slavery 150 years ago and Jim Crow 40 years ago that their children will not get good educations, will not get a fair shake in the legal system, and will live and die poor? And while accepting this, they should be grateful for America's history and never comment on wrongs done in America's name? I know you didn't say that explicitly, but if that's not your meaning in relation to the Rev. Wright affair and Obama's speech, then I'm not really sure what your meaning is.

[cryptique]

Yes, and spreading hate.. The day that people like Wright or Jesse Jackson or others stop seperating black people from white people and spreading the hate, is the day that racism stops.

So, racism is the fault of black preachers?

 

Get real.

[lamradio]

So, racism is the fault of black preachers?

 

Get real.

 

Yes, in a way it is.. Not just black preachers, but anyone that believes that they have to be separated or recieve special attention. That's the problem! We are all human, we are all equal.

[bjorn_skurj]

I've seen Jesse Jackson speak twice, and was blown away both times. Gotta give him props for going to foreign countries and getting hostages released.

[Good Old Neon]

But everyone is unfairly affected by what happened to their ancestors. Trying to have the government come in and correct it just adds to the injustice.

 

I