The Byrds vs The Doors

[mountain bed]

i just didnt like their earlier experimental stuff that much... when they moved into "rock/blues" from 1970, those albums grabbed me straight away

Well, I do love Absolutely Live - the first two sides especially.

 

"I got the poontang blues, top of my head down to the bottom of my cowboy shoes".

[Golden Smoghead]

They're not the best band of their time or all time, but their success doesn't seem ridiculously unfounded.

Agree. And PBS had some thing with the (present-day) Byrds on it recently, was pretty gruesome. I'm sure they were better when they were younger, but definitely dialed my interest-o-meter towards zero. This is meaner than I intend, but I can't think of another way to say it: they seemed like reformed hippies singing songs they now find simplistic and naive.

[jff]

The Doors really seem to have fallen out of favor during the past 10 or so years. They seem to be one of the bands rock snobs love to hate. I can't really think of a singular reason for this

 

 

Oh, that's easy. Oliver Stone.

[cryptique]

Oh, that's easy. Oliver Stone.

I won't dispute that, but I didn't like 'em long before that.

 

The station I was listening to this morning played "Moonlight Drive" during my commute.

[Analogman]

Agree. And PBS had some thing with the (present-day) Byrds on it recently, was pretty gruesome. I'm sure they were better when they were younger, but definitely dialed my interest-o-meter towards zero. This is meaner than I intend, but I can't think of another way to say it: they seemed like reformed hippies singing songs they now find simplistic and naive.

 

Gene and Michael are deceased - as well as, several of the other Byrds - what you saw was probably Roger playing Byrd songs with a backing band. Was it one of those Stars of the 60s shows?

[cryptique]

Gene and Michael are deceased - as well as, several of the other Byrds - what you saw was probably Roger playing Byrd songs with a backing band. Was it one of those Stars of the 60s shows?

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't judge the Byrds based on some recently assembled faux lineup.

 

If Jim Morrison were still alive and performing in some version of the Doors, I can't imagine they would seem any less ridiculous. I saw "The Robbie Krieger Band" several years ago, which was basically a Doors cover band featuring one actual member, and it was pretty grim.

[Analogman]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't judge the Byrds based on some recently assembled faux lineup.

 

If Jim Morrison were still alive and performing in some version of the Doors, I can't imagine they would seem any less ridiculous. I saw "The Robbie Krieger Band" several years ago, which was basically a Doors cover band featuring one actual member, and it was pretty grim.

 

They are actually still at it (as you probably know) - they had that dude from The Cult , now they have some guy from a band called Fuel (I think).

 

I think it is pathetic - but, they continue to sell out shows wherever they play - and the band does big business from merchandise/royalties/music sales, etc. - so I have read.

 

The Doors catalog has now been re-issued at least 4 times - so although the majority of people here may view them as crap, they still have quite a following.

[PopTodd]

Oh, that's easy. Oliver Stone.

 

I won't dispute that, but I didn't like 'em long before that.

 

I won't dispute that, but I didn't like 'em long before that.

 

Yup.

[Littlebear]

To imagine what would Jim Morrison do today is a nonsense: during his short life (he died at 27, people...), he prepared himself to die, at least as early as he fronted the Doors. You know, if you ever pay a bit of attention to the lyrics...

[CortezTheKiller]

The Doors catalog has now been re-issued at least 4 times - so although the majority of people here may view them as crap, they still have quite a following.

The Doors are classic rock royalty who lack indie cred.

[Sir Stewart]

The Doors are classic rock royalty who lack indie cred.

I would say they lack much more than indie cred. I have friends who've ragged on them since the 80s, and those folks don't have a single scarf in their collections.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

On this forum, I'm legitimately surprised that the Doors have any votes at all.

 

I don't think I've desired to hear a Jim Morrison song since I was 15.

 

 

There is one Doors song that grabs me every time...LA WOMAN.

 

The boozey, seedy lyrics, combined with an actually inspired performance by Morrison AND an excellently tight performance make this a winner for me.

 

The rest of their cataloge sounds like pretetious music made by art school students...wait...

[cryptique]

I would say they lack much more than indie cred. I have friends who've ragged on them since the 80s, and those folks don't have a single scarf in their collections.

I've ragged on them since the '80s.

 

I was interested in them for a while, but as I listened to them more, I liked them less and less, and the songs just didn't stand up to repeated listening for me. It's really hard to get past a lot of Morrison's excesses, both as a lyricist and a vocalist, and Manzarek, who initially struck me as a genius, really started to wear thin on me musically. I always appreciated the drumming of Densmore (and still do), and Krieger was no slouch, but they were relegated to supporting roles for the most part and couldn't steer the band away from some of the absurd directions that Morrison and Manzarek took it.

 

I still enjoy a small handful of Doors tunes, but I really don't have much use for them otherwise.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Let's imagine other US bands of the time covering "Roadhouse Blues", "Peace Frog", "You Make Me Real", "Maggie M'Gill": The Stones would have made a Stones thing,

 

 

[Sir Stewart]

Manzarek is one of the funniest blowhards in music history. For evidence I submit this Terry Gross interview with him.

[caliber66]

Manzarek talks how he came up with the famous piano riff from "Light My Fire."

 

There's piano on "Light My Fire"?

[Sir Stewart]

There's piano on "Light My Fire"?

 

The interview is worth a listen. The song is about "seizing the spiritual LSD moment" according to Ray.

[Analogman]

What's funny though - is a lot of bands have named them as an influence: MC5, Richard Ashcroft, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Echo & The Bunnymen, Jane's Addiction. The Teardrop Explodes, Billy Idol, Nick Cave, Blue Oyster Cult, Jesus And Mary Chain, The Birthday Party, Iggy Pop & The Stooges, The Psychedelic Furs, and X.

[MrRain422]

To imagine what would Jim Morrison do today is a nonsense: during his short life (he died at 27, people...), he prepared himself to die, at least as early as he fronted the Doors. You know, if you ever pay a bit of attention to the lyrics...

 

This type of romanticism about Morrison's lyrics and death are probably about 90% of the reason that there's been such a backlash. The cult of Morrison is ridiculous compared to his marginal talents. I personally think he was a very good singer, but he's been idolized for his lyrics for years, and quite frankly, most of his lyrics are garbage and if he hadn't died when he did, I don't think his legend would be even a tenth the size. You say he "prepared himself to die" but isn't that just code for being an alcoholic? Alcoholism and death shouldn't be romanticize as some sort of rock star destiny fulfillment

 

Manzarek is one of the funniest blowhards in music history. For evidence I submit this Terry Gross interview with him.

 

 

I agree. Total blowhard. I can't stand listening to him talk. Huge self-promoter and all around idiot. I think he was a skilled musician (and a more skilled producer) but he seems to be the world's biggest fanboy of his own band and that can get pretty annoying.

[Littlebear]

 

[fortuneinmyhead]

I've ragged on them since the '80s.

 

I was interested in them for a while, but as I listened to them more, I liked them less and less, and the songs just didn't stand up to repeated listening for me. It's really hard to get past a lot of Morrison's excesses, both as a lyricist and a vocalist, and Manzarek, who initially struck me as a genius, really started to wear thin on me musically. I always appreciated the drumming of Densmore (and still do), and Krieger was no slouch, but they were relegated to supporting roles for the most part and couldn't steer the band away from some of the absurd directions that Morrison and Manzarek took it.

 

I still enjoy a small handful of Doors tunes, but I really don't have much use for them otherwise.

 

IMO their absurd directions were a strength, a willingness to step out into the unknown and experiment a lot. Sometimes with horrible results, granted!

 

The Byrds for me are hard to judge as a band because they were barely a band. The original lineup was toast after their first couple of albums & they tended to cover a lot of songs on their albums. They did some great music (my faves are The Notorious Byrds Brothers and Sweetheart of the Rodeo), but are in different arena (to me) than The Doors. Seriously I think the Byrds are underrated as a group that re-molded American music---it's obvious why as they didn't have a bad-boy Dionysian singer-pseudo-poet that could be marketed to death as an icon of rebelliousness. Instead they are 'that oldies band'.

[MrRain422]

What's funny though - is a lot of bands have named them as an influence: MC5, Richard Ashcroft, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Echo & The Bunnymen, Jane's Addiction. The Teardrop Explodes, Billy Idol, Nick Cave, Blue Oyster Cult, Jesus And Mary Chain, The Birthday Party, Iggy Pop & The Stooges, The Psychedelic Furs, and X.

 

Sure, they get credit for influencing a lot of good to great bands. But pretty much everyone that you listed took what the Doors did and improved upon it greatly. Morrison may have become an archetype type of rock singer, but so many who emulated him did it better than he did.

[caliber66]

The interview is worth a listen. The song is about "seizing the spiritual LSD moment" according to Ray.

Oh, I plan to listen to it when I get home. I haven't listened to "Light My Fire" on purpose in years (and definitely only the radio edit), so I only remember the organ. Is there piano on it?

[Analogman]

Sure, they get credit for influencing a lot of good to great bands. But pretty much everyone that you listed took what the Doors did and improved upon it greatly. Morrison may have become an archetype type of rock singer, but so many who emulated him did it better than he did.

 

Oh, I am just throwing something positive out there - I have listened to and enjoyed their music since I was 14 years old - I don't hate them. If most people here do, than that is just the way it is.

[Littlebear]

This type of romanticism about Morrison's lyrics and death are probably about 90% of the reason that there's been such a backlash.

 

But I don't see any romanticism about this... The guy was desperate, and his view of rock'n'roll was certainly not a peaceful one. I always felt despair, tragedy, anger, and crisis in Morrison's attitude. Oh, and joy and infinity, too. After all, he was smiling when we found him dead in his bath.