How cool is this guy??

[bobbob1313]

Just curious:you use "Republican" like an insult?

 

Welcome to America.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

This is the part that slays me. Democrats who voted for it in congress don't have to assume any blame because of this reasoning. Beautiful.

Anyone on either side of the aisle under the conditions who voted their conscience, I have no fault. Those who see what has developed and seek to find change -- even the effort -- I have no fault with. Those who voted for it and turn a blind eye, carry their blame. I'm sorry if that makes me a bigot.

[embiggen]

I totally think Bush is one of the more entertaining political figures of the last 20 years, and he would probably crack my top 5 "Presidents to go out drinking with" list.

 

 

too bad he's a t-totaller.

[myboyblue]

"white knuckler"

[Sunken mountain]

Welcome to America.

 

In Spain can be an insult too being in the righty wing

[mfwahl]

In Spain can be an insult too being in the righty wing

Liberal is also an insult here in America

[MrRain422]

I fault everyone that voted for the war, Democrats included. That being said, a little bit more fault has to lie with those that actually proposed and made the case for war to Congress and who then went on to wage the war so poorly. All other things being equal, I'm happy to support the ouster of any person of either party who voted for the war.

[bobbob1313]

I blame Donald Rumsfield more than Bush, and I don't see how anyone couldn't.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

I fault everyone that voted for the war, Democrats included. That being said, a little bit more fault has to lie with those that actually proposed and made the case for war to Congress and who then went on to wage the war so poorly. All other things being equal, I'm happy to support the ouster of any person of either party who voted for the war.

I would hope the person would also have a compelling plan for ending the war at a minimum cost of lives and $. Anyone could have tossed a coin and voted no for the war.

[Good Old Neon]

I blame Donald Rumsfield more than Bush, and I don't see how anyone couldn't.

 

Because, at the end of the day, the president is the Commander in Chief

[IRememberDBoon]

This is the part that slays me. Democrats who voted for it in congress don't have to assume any blame because of this reasoning. Beautiful.

 

 

Congress voted to give him the power not to actually invade.

[mfwahl]

Congress voted to give him the power not to actually invade.

From reading the document, the case can be made that Congress didn't authorize war, but it has some pretty open language like that the President could use the Armed Forces "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq." (whatever continuing threat means). Oh and the title is a little hard to get by: the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002. As a Democrat, I know that's just stupid. When Hillary was trying to make the case that she voted for stricter diplomacy, I laughed and cried at the same time. They didn't authorize war per se but they gave the administration the power to do whatever they wanted.

 

There were some amendments that would have given enough qualifiers to this to make it acceptable (they included changing continuing threat to immediate threat and one amendment would have required the support of the UN) but they failed to get passed.

 

The blame goes all around.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

If the evidence presented was not abridged, sliced and diced, and the threat was a creditable as promised, how could you not vote to move forward?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

If the evidence presented was not abridged, sliced and diced, and the threat was a creditable as promised, how could you not vote to move forward?

Clearly a good number of representatives and senators had their shit together enough to vote against the war authorization (40% of democratic senators, etc).

 

I'm not sure what the point is of removing all responsibility from the congress. Sure, they had a lot of pressure on them and the vote was timed to amplify that pressure. Still, war is important enough that you better damn well vote on what you think is right rather than what you think will get you elected.

 

Bush distorted the intelligence. He probably outright lied. A good many Democrats went right along with him. I see nothing wrong with focusing on what happened, so we can avoid it happening again. But let's take a clear-eyed look.

[tugmoose]

Clearly a good number of representatives and senators had their shit together enough to vote against the war authorization (40% of democratic senators, etc).

 

I'm not sure what the point is of removing all responsibility from the congress. Sure, they had a lot of pressure on them and the vote was timed to amplify that pressure. Still, war is important enough that you better damn well vote on what you think is right rather than what you think will get you elected.

 

Bush distorted the intelligence. He probably outright lied. A good many Democrats went right along with him. I see nothing wrong with focusing on what happened, so we can avoid it happening again. But let's take a clear-eyed look.

[mfwahl]

If the evidence presented was not abridged, sliced and diced, and the threat was a creditable as promised, how could you not vote to move forward?

I'd agree with this to a point. I know that there was editing done in between the intelligence officers and Congress receiving them. For instance if the intentional said "possible" or "could be", those words would be edited out to make it sound certain. That is totally unacceptable and highly illegal. I think, also, that the public relations campaign of the modern conservative movement to paint the media as liberal and paint liberals as anti-American influenced voting and coverage up to the war. But these things (even the false intelligence, as horrible and unforgivable as that is) are poor excuses when it come to the voting. They didn't have to vote for this. It gave the president too much power and from what I've read and seen in documentaries a lot of the fulks in Congress didn't even read the goddamn thing. I just think it would better for everyone involved including us above-average Americans to accept some blame rather than trying to dish it out.

 

But Bush should definitely be impeached for many reasons. Impeachment proceedings have been introduced for far less and it's usually done at the end of the President's time in office. A lot of the precedents that have been set by this Administration shouldn't sit well with either side of the aisle. I've read things by people from Reagan's staff who are very upset with Bush's use of signing statements and citation of Reagan's use of them as precedent.

[EL the Famous]

I see nothing wrong with focusing on what happened, so we can avoid it happening again.

 

neither do i, but haven't we done that ad naseum?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

There's still new info that is unearthed. There's still a lot of dispute about what happened.

[EL the Famous]

There's still new info that is unearthed. There's still a lot of dispute about what happened.

 

so, versus saying he fucked up...we'll be better armed to say he REALLY fucked up. awesome.

 

this is seriously no bait or dig or anyone, but what is really disheartening about these threads...so much focus on what everybody is against rather than what they're for. that is just my personal interpretation and it just kind of bums me out.

[fatheadfred]

This is the part that slays me. Democrats who voted for it in congress don't have to assume any blame because of this reasoning. Beautiful.

 

And according the Hersh report, the same thing w/ Iran plans. I really hope Hersh has lost it and nothing comes of it.

[LouieB]

He's pretty cool actually.

 

It's a shame he can't run for a third term.

My sentiments exactly....

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

so, versus saying he fucked up...we'll be better armed to say he REALLY fucked up. awesome.

 

this is seriously no bait or dig or anyone, but what is really disheartening about these threads...so much focus on what everybody is against rather than what they're for. that is just my personal interpretation and it just kind of bums me out.

 

Ok, let me phrase it, or like, spin it from a more positive angle, I

[EL the Famous]

Ok, let me phrase it, or like, spin it from a more positive angle, I

[bobbob1313]

Because, at the end of the day, the president is the Commander in Chief

[Sir Stewart]