MattZ Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 damn you Moss! (EDIT: I mean that you said the exact same thing I said (at the same time) -- even started it with "Certainly") Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I don't know if it should be a law or anything but certainly the artists have the right to be outraged. It's torture for god's sake. EXACTLY. I find it amazing people can joke about this when its being done in their name so that they can go to the mall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 EXACTLY. I find it amazing people can joke about this when its being done in their name so that they can go to the mall.What happened? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 What happened? Nothing important just some torture, the overthrow of some sovereign nations, the killing of innocent, the destruction of civil rights and some artists were upset about how their music was being used. But don't mind me by all means carry on with whatever you are doing to avoid work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Nothing important just some torture, the overthrow of some sovereign nations, the killing of innocent, the destruction of civil rights and some artists were upset about how their music was being used. But don't mind me by all means carry on with whatever you are doing to avoid work. drama queen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 damn you Moss! (EDIT: I mean that you said the exact same thing I said (at the same time) -- even started it with "Certainly") I knew what you meant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You know, the whole discussion was built on the premise that we all believe that this particular issue constitutes torture. I for one don't, and was willing to put that aside. So, if I sound flip about it, it may be because playing loud music pales compared to what has been done in the name of torture in this world. Now the broader arguement is about other forms of torture that I assume most here believe the US is taking part in. We can argue that all day, but this isn't the place. So all I will say, is that there is probably a percentage (who knows exactly) that don't believe the US is torturing people down at Guantamo. Their opinion isn't uneducated or ill informed or cold hearted, it is just an opinion built on their own belief system. So once again, If I sound flip it is because I don't believe in the merits of this arguement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 You know, the whole discussion was built on the premise that we all believe that this particular issue constitutes torture. I for one don't, and was willing to put that aside. So, if I sound flip about it, it may be because playing loud music pales compared to what has been done in the name of torture in this world. Now the broader arguement is about other forms of torture that I assume most here believe the US is taking part in. We can argue that all day, but this isn't the place. So all I will say, is that there is probably a percentage (who knows exactly) that don't believe the US is torturing people down at Guantamo. Their opinion isn't uneducated or ill informed or cold hearted, it is just an opinion built on their own belief system. So once again, If I sound flip it is because I don't believe in the merits of this arguement. What do you think the effect on ones mental health would be if they were forced to listen to "Crazy" by Britney Spears over and over at loud volumes or the sesame street theme song? I believe the article states that the use of music in this manner is considered torture by the UN Convention against torture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 What do you think the effect on ones mental health would be if they were forced to listen to "Crazy" by Britney Spears over and over at loud volumes or the sesame street theme song? I believe the article states that the use of music in this manner is considered torture by the UN Convention against torture. It is a song. (Not a bad one at that) The UN doesn't hold a lot of credibility for some people (harking back to my previous comments about differing opinions). Someone much smarter than myself could point out the UN's own inconsistencies when it comes to human rights violations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 It is a song. (Not a bad one at that) The UN doesn't hold a lot of credibility for some people (harking back to my previous comments about differing opinions). Someone much smarter than myself could point out the UN's own inconsistencies when it comes to human rights violations. You are right it is a song, but you ignored the "played loudly or repeat" part. Hell i was working at a pizza place for the past year with a playlist that didn't change, same songs every day sometimes at the same time. This was driving me nuts, i even stopped listening to wilco for a year because i heard so many of their songs EVERYDAY. Homemade Pizza Co. is not Guantanamo, under those conditions I can't even imagine what would happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 yeah, don't get me wrong, metal music gives me anxiety attacks, so I get the point that it can have an "impact" on someone. However, if I was caught committing terrorist acts and this was treatment I recieved, I'd be counting my lucky stars. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 If playing music loudly for extended periods of time was the only coercive technique employed to make detainees uncomfortable, I’m willing to bet there wouldn’t be such an uproar from musicians. However, it has been well documented that some truly evil shit has taken place at Guantanamo and elsewhere, up to and including death, so, in that context, I can understand why musicians - especially those who strongly opposed and continue to oppose the sort of shit that has transpired – are incensed that their music may have played a part in Bush’s little torture scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 If I were forced to listen to John Mayer at any volume I would squeal like Ned Beatty on the banks of the Chattahoochee. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 yeah, don't get me wrong, metal music gives me anxiety attacks, so I get the point that it can have an "impact" on someone. However, if I was caught committing terrorist acts and this was treatment I recieved, I'd be counting my lucky stars. You’re assuming, incorrectly, that everyone imprisoned at Guantanamo is guilty of a terrorist act. It has been well documented that some prisoners were guilty of little more than being at the wrong place at the wrong time - including minors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 You’re assuming, incorrectly, that everyone imprisoned at Guantanamo is guilty of a terrorist act. It has been well documented that some prisoners were guilty of little more than being at the wrong place at the wrong time - including minors. Your comment about "Bush's little torture scheme" sheds light on where you stand on this issue. I don't think we will resolve our differing viewpoints on ViaChicago. I am not going to buy into a belief that our goverment was setting out to torture people just because. I'm sorry if I'm suppose to feel differently. Were mistakes made? I'm sure they were. Was our goverment on a wholesale level setting out to do evil things on an organized level? I'm not going there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Your comment about "Bush's little torture scheme" sheds light on where you stand on this issue. I don't think we will resolve our differing viewpoints on ViaChicago. I am not going to buy into a belief that our goverment was setting out to torture people just because. I'm sorry if I'm suppose to feel differently. Were mistakes made? I'm sure they were. Was our goverment on a wholesale level setting out to do evil things on an organized level? I'm not going there. Where I stand, is with what’s been well documented. It doesn’t matter what you believe, what matters is what transpired, and the fact is, our government tortured detainees. Your personal feelings to the contrary amount to little more than that, your personal feelings. Was our goverment on a wholesale level setting out to do evil things on an organized level? I'm not going there. You may choose to allow your mind not to go there, but go there we did. You can begin your education with Jane Mayer’s exhaustively documented, The Dark Side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Homemade Pizza Co. is not Guantanamo, under those conditions I can't even imagine what would happen.That place sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nodep5 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Out of an entire era of fighting terror, and based on debated views of torture (what is/what isn't), I think it is more fair to say that mistakes were made in some instances, debateable forms of "torture" were allowed, and I'm sure a few innoncent individuals were unjustly detained, and I'm sure a few individuals may have died during this entire period. I'm also sure there are people with an agenda writing books out there stating that the evil Bush administration did alot of things including bringing down the towers. So yes, I go back to what I believe to be true or not. Also in terms of the specific music arguement, I can't see playing music repeatedly and loudly as being torture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Out of an entire era of fighting terror, and based on debated views of torture (what is/what isn't), I think it is more fair to say that mistakes were made in some instances, debateable forms of "torture" were allowed, and I'm sure a few innoncent individuals were unjustly detained, and I'm sure a few individuals may have died during this entire period. I'm also sure there are people with an agenda writing books out there stating that the evil Bush administration did alot of things including bringing down the towers. So yes, I go back to what I believe to be true or not. Also in terms of the specific music arguement, I can't see playing music repeatedly and loudly as being torture. Jane Mayer’s book is based on facts, again, you can choose to ignore facts because they do not comport with your personal political beliefs, but facts are facts – our government engaged in the use of torture, sought to cover it up, and actively sought to circumvent the laws outlawing its use – these are facts. That you are not aware of them, or choose to ignore them, doesn’t change the fact that they are facts – period. Referring to the deliberate use of torture as a simple “mistake” is simply ridiculous. How does one mistakenly torture someone, over and over again – up to an including killing them? My disgust with Guantanamo is every bit as strong under Obama’s tutelage, as it was under Bush's – which is to say, it has nothing to do with my political beliefs. What is obvious, however, is that you have allowed your beliefs to inoculate yourself from the truth. And at this point, I see no reason to continue this discussion – as only one of us want’s to operate within the sphere of reality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Your comment about "Bush's little torture scheme" sheds light on where you stand on this issue. I don't think we will resolve our differing viewpoints on ViaChicago. I am not going to buy into a belief that our goverment was setting out to torture people just because. I'm sorry if I'm suppose to feel differently. Were mistakes made? I'm sure they were. Was our goverment on a wholesale level setting out to do evil things on an organized level? I'm not going there. Look you still said they were caught in the act, I don't think anyone at Guantanamo was caught in the act, I don't think our government even claims this. That place sucks. You got that right, you don't even know the half of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Also in terms of the specific music arguement, I can't see playing music repeatedly and loudly as being torture. Ok, but it has nothing to do with the music being particularly bad, all kidding aside, of course. You don't see how prolonged exposure to loud sounds (music, or anything else) could drive someone crazy? I am not talking 6 on your stereo. I mean LOUD and LONG. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Not to mention the music was probably deeply offensive to their religious sensibilities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I bet Toby Keith is busy right now scribbling the lyrics to his future hit, "The CIA Can Torture You To This Song (You Arab Bastard)." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc4prez Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 I bet Toby Keith is busy right now scribbling the lyrics to his future hit, "The CIA Can Torture You To This Song (You Arab Bastard)." Sad because its probably true Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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