(Ventriloquist)Jeff Dunham + crazy success = wtf???

[bobbob1313]

I find Jeff Dunham pretty unfunny, but Sarah Silverman is so much more obnoxious to me. She's the exact opposite of Dunham in that she's "exploding stereotypes", as GON said. But I find neither to be funny at all, and I don't think she really tells jokes as much as she just says ridiculous things to get people to laugh. The big difference between the two is you get the feeling that she's trying to make fun of people who believe the things she is actually saying and that Dunham might believe them, but really it's not that big of a difference.

[bleedorange]

20 years ago, he was pretty funny. But he relied more on his ability and the interplay and dialogue between his various dummies and himself. It's definitely different now.

[yermom]

I briefly saw an ad for his show on tv and my first thought was, "Isn't that the guy from the car commercials like 15 years ago?" I've never really seen his routine and if it's just ventriloracism, I'm glad I haven't. Also, I don't find Sarah Silverman funny either, but I haven't seen much of her stuff. I did enjoy the "F*cking Matt Damon" bit, but I think it was Matt Damon's enthusiastic delivery that I enjoyed there.

[stooka]

I knew him in HS... nice guy! He was a cheerleader.

[Sir Stewart]

Sarah Silverman makes me laugh lots and I also kinda can't stand her at the same time.

[Atticus]

Sarah Silverman makes me laugh lots and I also kinda can't stand her at the same time.

 

agreed. I seem to favor her roast bits, but just couldn't get through her show.

 

ed.: ("roast bits")

[myboyblue]

Sarah Silverman makes me laugh lots and I also kinda can't stand her at the same time.

I think she's pretty hilarious.

 

In other news, a Jeff Dunham thread shouldn't exist much yet make it to 3 pages.

[Good Old Neon]

I find Jeff Dunham pretty unfunny, but Sarah Silverman is so much more obnoxious to me. She's the exact opposite of Dunham in that she's "exploding stereotypes", as GON said. But I find neither to be funny at all, and I don't think she really tells jokes as much as she just says ridiculous things to get people to laugh. The big difference between the two is you get the feeling that she's trying to make fun of people who believe the things she is actually saying and that Dunham might believe them, but really it's not that big of a difference.

 

Dunham’s (or at least his stage persona) shtick strikes me as the sort of stuff you might be subjected to by the clueless guy in any given workplace, the sort of guy who cracks racist jokes by the water cooler, at the expense of x minority, whereas Silverman would make a similar joke, but rather than it be at the expense of the joke’s subject, the vitriol would be aimed at the sort of ass whom I just described. Silverman’s humor is definitely not for everyone, though in all fairness, the same could be said for Dunham, but on stage and in character, she says the opposite of what she actually thinks – at least according to the interviews I’ve read and/or watched. Much of which is derived from The New Yorker biography from several years ago -

 

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/24/051024fa_fact

 

In the (apparently) wildly popular terrorist puppet video that garnered like, 8 zillion hits on Youtube, Dunham spends a good deal of time making fun of the puppet’s name, Achmed – which, how many times has the name Achmed been used in conjunction with someone from the Middle East, way too many I’d say, to the point at which its use is totally cliché, and, as a result, no longer funny. One of his other puppets is black, and of course, a pimp, again, how original. While another, the Mexican, is a hot pepper who spouts all the sorts of stuff you’ve probably already been subjected too a million times in a million bad Mexican jokes. To be fair, his act does include a redneck, but to be consistent, perhaps it should be shaped like a Ritz.

 

However, the one group he will not make fun of, will not stereotype, conservative Christians. From the article:

 

Dunham does concede that he’s extra-sensitive to one of his largest constituencies: the conservative “country crowd.” “That’s why I don’t pick on basic Christian-values stuff,” he told me. “Well, I also don’t like to, because that’s the way I was brought up.” He then stopped himself short and said: “Oh, boy. I’m walking into something here.”

 

Dunham started to explain — as if realizing it for the first time — that this would appear to make the jokes he does about Islam with Achmed “hypocritical.” But he quickly unburdened himself of the idea. “I try to make the majority of my audience laugh,” he said. “That’s my audience. They’ll laugh at the dead terrorist.”

 

So, in Dunham’s world, it is perfectly ok to stereotype just about everyone else, just not conservative white folks. Which begs the question, if, as he claims, his racial material is essentially innocent, and should not be taken seriously, why is he so uncomfortable turning his humor on his audience, if, after all, it’s all just good fun? Does he fear that they cannot handle a joke at their own expense, or is it because he concedes, even if only internally, that some of his material is simply racist? And maybe this makes him uncomfortable, confronting these feelings, hence, the puppets.

 

Or maybe I’m just way off base and over thinking this.

[bleedorange]

Or maybe I’m just way off base and over thinking this.

 

You're way over-thinking this. He found a way to be hugely successful and tapped into a large audience. That's about it.

[cryptique]

But that's kind of the point. He willingly crossed over to the dark side to amass that audience. That says a lot about him.

[bleedorange]

But that's kind of the point. He willingly crossed over to the dark side to amass that audience. That says a lot about him.

 

I think it says he wanted to make some money after toiling away as a comic for over 20 years. People do it all the time. Bands do it all the time. Actors do it all the time. Etc.

[cryptique]

Yup. And people rake them over the coals for it. Which is what's happening here.

[bleedorange]

Yup. And people rake them over the coals for it. Which is what's happening here.

 

Well there are far more objectionable things in this world then someone craving success.

[cryptique]

True. But there are far less despicable things in this world than someone catering to the lowest common denominator to achieve that success. Especially when he seems to know that he's gone outside the lines.

[bleedorange]

True. But there are far less despicable things in this world than someone catering to the lowest common denominator to achieve that success. Especially when he seems to know that he's gone outside the lines.

 

I suppose, but not many. I've just grown tired of judging. All I can say is that he was funny 20 years ago. He's terrible now. But there is clearly an audience for him. So be it.

[IATTBYB]

But that's kind of the point. He willingly crossed over to the dark side to amass that audience. That says a lot about him.

And even more about his audience.

[bjorn_skurj]

Well there are far more objectionable things in this world then someone craving success.

Yeah, like being a racist.

[bleedorange]

Yeah, like being a racist.

 

[bjorn_skurj]

Dude, I am sending Al Sharpton down your way to perk you up a bit!

[Winston Legthigh]

OK - here's what I don't understand...

 

Personally, I don't find him funny. Therefore I don't spend money on any of his products.

 

The people who DO spend money on him are the type that GON typically belittles for their backwards values and voting patterns, yet he's incredulous that Dunham is successful? GON, are you really that surprised? Mining the LCD for their ducats is hardly a new concept. It's an exploitable market, and he's delivering a product in demand. I don't know enough (nor am willing to do the footwork) about his routine to cast it as racist as not, but it seems suspect.

 

I agree that Sarah Silverman's race satire is something similar, yet different (and funnier) - Her joke on Conan got her in hot water: "I got stuck on jury duty, so a friend advised me to make like I was racist on my questionnaire and write "I hate chinks". I thought about it and I didn't want to appear racist, so instead I wrote "I love chinks!""

 

Is her act racist or satire? The Media Action Network for Asian Americans demanded an apology from her.

Is Dunham's act racist or satire? A ventriloquist has the advantage of playing the straight man against the characters his puppets inhibit.

[Guest Jules]

I find Jeff Dunham pretty unfunny, but Sarah Silverman is so much more obnoxious to me. She's the exact opposite of Dunham in that she's "exploding stereotypes", as GON said. But I find neither to be funny at all, and I don't think she really tells jokes as much as she just says ridiculous things to get people to laugh. The big difference between the two is you get the feeling that she's trying to make fun of people who believe the things she is actually saying and that Dunham might believe them, but really it's not that big of a difference.

Yes it is.

 

I think he should spread some of that wealth.

I'll take some.

[Good Old Neon]

OK - here's what I don't understand...

 

Personally, I don't find him funny. Therefore I don't spend money on any of his products.

 

The people who DO spend money on him are the type that GON typically belittles for their backwards values and voting patterns, yet he's incredulous that Dunham is successful? GON, are you really that surprised? Mining the LCD for their ducats is hardly a new concept. It's an exploitable market, and he's delivering a product in demand. I don't know enough (nor am willing to do the footwork) about his routine to cast it as racist as not, but it seems suspect.

 

I agree that Sarah Silverman's race satire is something similar, yet different (and funnier) - Her joke on Conan got her in hot water: "I got stuck on jury duty, so a friend advised me to make like I was racist on my questionnaire and write "I hate chinks". I thought about it and I didn't want to appear racist, so instead I wrote "I love chinks!""

 

Is her act racist or satire? The Media Action Network for Asian Americans demanded an apology from her.

Is Dunham's act racist or satire? A ventriloquist has the advantage of playing the straight man against the characters his puppets inhibit.

 

I won’t apologize for holding a dim view of a goodly percentage of my fellow Americans. It’s not that I think I’m smatter or superior in any way, because I’m not, I just have very little patience for the willfully ignorant – and those are just the sort of folks Dunham is mining (Palin mines, Limbaugh mines, Fox News mines, the entire fucking Republican Party mines and so on and so on….) And that, of course, is fine, but like cryptique pointed out, he should be raked over the coals for catering to them.

 

As for Silverman, she claims her act is satire, and I tend to believe her. Unlike Dunham, she does include her constituency in her act, and is an equal opportunity offender. By his own admission, Dunham refuses to satirize white conservative Christians – a segment of the population more deserving of ridicule you will not find. Silverman is laughing at herself, and the sort of people who hold and express the sorts of views she expresses onstage, Dunham, and by extension, his audience, however, is laughing at the object of his “jokes.” He’s not sending up stereotypes, he’s using them as a source of income.

 

Dunham claims his puppets allow him to say things he’s to shy to say, and that he’s fed up with all this political correctness crap (though he’s down with being pc in the case of white conservative Christians) – combine the two, and it sounds to me like he’s simply hiding behind a hand shoved up a puppet’s ass.

 

This is from his act (sweet Daddy Dee is his delightful ode to black people, a malt drinking pimp):

 

 

Sweet Daddy Dee: Is there one other brother in the house tonight?

[sees a black man]

Sweet Daddy Dee: Oh! Yo, dawg; RUN!

[audience laughs]

Sweet Daddy Dee: And if there are any Mexican brothers in the audience tonight, I got one thing to say to ya'll. Learn fucking English!

 

Where’s the joke?

[bleedorange]

I don't know. I just watched his sweet daddy dee stuff on youtube (man, there's another 8 minutes I won't ever get back), and while it might not be that funny to me, I don't see anything really terrible or objectionable. There were a few decent jokes thrown in there.

 

The "learn english" line would be the one exception that seems out of place. So I guess you can condemn him for that.

[Winston Legthigh]

This is from his act (sweet Daddy Dee is his delightful ode to black people, a malt drinking pimp):

 

Sweet Daddy Dee: Is there one other brother in the house tonight?

[sees a black man]

Sweet Daddy Dee: Oh! Yo, dawg; RUN!

[audience laughs]

Sweet Daddy Dee: And if there are any Mexican brothers in the audience tonight, I got one thing to say to ya'll. Learn fucking English!

 

Where’s the joke?

The joke (at least in the first two lines) is not only in the unlikelihood that a black dude would find Dunham entertaining, but that even Dunham is acknowledging that his audience is racist (and possibly dangerous?)

 

As for the last line? What we're missing to make the picture complete is what Dunham's reactions are - because a ventriloquist's act is never solely about the puppet. Otherwise he'd just be a puppeteer. A ventriloquist's act relies on the give and take between the ventriloquist and the dummy.

 

Again - I don't think Dunham is funny, and I don't want to come across as defending him, but it doesn't bother me that he's successful. I'm certainly not contributing to his success, and if I could find a way to write lame (and possibly racist) comedy to make millions, I'd take his audience's money too.

[bjorn_skurj]

Now, that's the thing. GON and I disagree on this point, but I think there will come a time when we all will be judged, and I would really rather not have to explain to IHVH why I made a bunch of money perpetuating racism. I have enough shit to explain as it is.