Tour de France 2010

[cryptique]

No thread on this yet? OK, I know, no one in the U.S. cares...

 

Personally, I enjoy some (probably blood-doped) cycling, and this year's Tour has been a good one so far.

 

Controversy in today's 11th stage, as Cavendish wins his third stage but his leadout man, Mark Renshaw, is booted from the race for head-butting Garmin Transitions leadout man Julian Dean.

 

Video (not in English) - the good stuff starts around 4:20 in.

 

My take is that Dean swerved pretty aggressively trying to squeeze Renshaw and Cavendish out and Renshaw was just trying to make space. He probably didn't need to head-butt him three times, but it basically looks like self-defense to me. (See the overhead shot, a bit later in the video, for a better look at what really happened.)

 

That said, Renshaw then tried to ride Tyler Farrar into the left-hand barrier, which seemed far more dangerous to me than the head-butts. Considering that he'd just gotten the same treatment from Dean, he was probably a bit hot under the collar.

 

I don't have much problem with Renshaw getting tossed, but UCI might want to consider some discipline for Dean as well.

 

As for the general classification, it currently looks like a two-man race between Schleck and Contador. I'm hoping someone (maybe Leipheimer?) can shave a few minutes off their lead and assert himself as another legitimate contender for the overall win.

[Winston Legthigh]

My take is that Dean swerved pretty aggressively trying to squeeze Renshaw and Cavendish out and Renshaw was just trying to make space. He probably didn't need to head-butt him three times, but it basically looks like self-defense to me. (See the overhead shot, a bit later in the video, for a better look at what really happened.)

 

That said, Renshaw then tried to ride Tyler Farrar into the left-hand barrier, which seemed far more dangerous to me than the head-butts. Considering that he'd just gotten the same treatment from Dean, he was probably a bit hot under the collar.

 

I don't have much problem with Renshaw getting tossed, but UCI might want to consider some discipline for Dean as well.

 

As for the general classification, it currently looks like a two-man race between Schleck and Contador. I'm hoping someone (maybe Leipheimer?) can shave a few minutes off their lead and assert himself as another legitimate contender for the overall win.

Wow.

 

Your take seems right. The head-butts didn't have any force behind them and amounted to love taps (the kind of love that says "Hey Fuckface, I'm right HERE!") and I completely agree with you about his attempt to ride the other guy into the barrier. Very dangerous.

[Moss]

I work for a company that sponsors the Tour of California and also manufactures the prime drug used for cheating (I'm sure you could figure it out from that), some people consider it a bit of a conflict of interest but I don't. Either way, it has opened my eyes to the sport so I casually follow it. I think tomorrow is the big hill climb which I always enjoy. I can't even fathom the legs it takes to do something like that. I tend to root for Leipheimer not only because he is American but I also like the work he does supporting animal welfare causes. Thanks for the link, I was meaning to take a look at it.

[Winston Legthigh]

I can't even fathom the legs it takes to do something like that.

 

The thing that astounds me is their crusing speed on flats is something like 35 mph. I think I can MAYBE go 22, 23 mph, for like maybe 10 seconds, downhill, with wind at my back.

[jff]

Just when we got fed up with pretending to like soccer, now we're going to pretend to like bicycle races.

[cryptique]

I like them both! (I love soccer.)

[The Inside of Outside]

Just when we got fed up with pretending to like soccer, now we're going to pretend to like bicycle races.

That is hitting the nail on the head.

[Sunken mountain]

I like them both! (I love soccer.)

 

OK,here I am,hope you have better taste on that

 

I´m the pharmacist of Dani Navarro

[cryptique]

OK,here I am,hope you have better taste on that

I have no idea what this means.

[cryptique]

Contador in yellow again, but only by eight seconds. The last few stages should be fun.

[welch79]

i didnt know this thread existed...

 

i have been following the tour fervently since '99. of course, the drama of armstrong coming back from cancer drew me in, and i was hooked. it also got me into road cycling and i've been riding ever since.

 

but, back to this year's tour...this has been an interesting year. a huge amount of riders have hit the deck and abandoned. add to this four tough stages in the pyrenees in honor of the 100 years the tour has ridden through them, and it has been one hell of a tour.

 

as far as today's stage went, i'm not sure that alberto contador came across as very sporting today as he seemingly took advantage of shleck's mechanical.

 

The thing that astounds me is their crusing speed on flats is something like 35 mph. I think I can MAYBE go 22, 23 mph, for like maybe 10 seconds, downhill, with wind at my back.

 

part of why the peloton's cruising speed is so high is that it is a multi-rider effort. i have been in a large pack of riders going that fast...and it doesnt really feel (as far as effort goes) like you are going much faster than your hardest effort, like you said, 22 or 23 mph. but, what really makes it happen is that the effort is cumulative, and once the riders in the front tire, they peel off for the next ones, who were sheltered and enjoying a huge effort "discount" for being in the slipstream.

 

but, agreed, it is astonishing.

[cryptique]

as far as today's stage went, i'm not sure that alberto contador came across as very sporting today as he seemingly took advantage of shleck's mechanical.

My take: Schleck only has himself to blame. It wasn't like a punctured tire, something beyond his control -- this was Schleck probably shifting at the wrong time and causing his own chain to drop. I know there's etiquette and all, but it's a race, people. Contador is trying to win the thing. Menchov and Sanchez went by Schleck too -- why is all the anger directed at Contador? Maybe it's time to stop treating the maillot jaune like something fragile and in need of protection, and start attacking it, as would happen in virtually any other form of racing. If a NASCAR driver is leading at Daytona and blows a tire on the final lap, should everyone else slow down so he can limp across the line first? Hell no.

 

Schleck says he'll exact his revenge. We'll see, won't we? I'm not sure he can take Contador on the two remaining mountain stages, and I know he can't beat him in a time trial.

[welch79]

well, to your point about nascar, this isn't an auto race. and i understand you are trying to compare via analogy, but that will just not work. this race has had 97 runnings, and has its own set of decorum that isn't broken without backlash. true, it is a race, but rarely do leaders take advantage of big rivals during puncture or chain dropping. about the chain dropping, i doubt very seriously that shleck was responsible for the chain falling off as he was already in a rhythm after the initial jump to attack.

 

there are a couple of reasons that anger is directed at contador. first, last year on the slopes of ventoux (i believe that was the stage), contador claimed that his earpiece fell out, and that was why he directly disobeyed johan bruneel's (his team director AND boss) order. so he claimed ignorance there in that instance, and yesterday, as the replay plainly shows, contador knew that andy was having a mechanical, yet alberto zoomed past him and kept looking back while still dropping the hammer to put time between him and andy. and yesterday he claimed ignorance.

 

contador did post an apology to youtube...so that is an admission of some guilt.

 

the truth of the matter is, as you have said cryptique, that alberto is far and away a better time trialist, so if the tenuous lead that andy had yeasterday pre-mechanical had lasted until the time trial later this week, alberto would have walked away in yellow and found himself in yellow in paris. as it is now, contador looks rather "yellow" as in cowardly b/c he attacked, hard, i might add, at a time when a rival was having difficulty...when he should have been more confident in his time trialing ability. contador just seems afraid of shleck on the climbs, and that is no way for a grand champion to behave.

 

but you can't say that "maybe we should stop treating the maillot jaune as something fragile..." because this is just how the race is run.

[cryptique]

Meh. It's a new generation. Traditions evolve over time, and useless ones are discarded. It's a race, not a parade.

 

I understand why people are upset with Contador, and I don't buy his claim that he didn't know Schleck was having a mechanical issue. But I do think there's a difference between a punctured tire (not Schleck's fault) and dropping a chain (probably Schleck's fault). Also, Alberto waited for Schleck on an earlier stage when Schleck crashed, so he's not completely dismissive of the etiquette and traditions.

 

This is all grey area, and different people will see it different ways. To me, what Contador did was maybe a little douchey, but it wasn't unfair.

[Moss]

One of those unwritten rules that seem to be disappearing in sports. I know some people think they are silly but I am starting to miss them more and more. Sportsmanship in general seems to be rapidly going away. There used to be an attitude of wanting to win because you were the best rider on that day, not because somebody's chain fell off.

 

I guess on the other hand, this gives the other riders a green light to take advantage of any misfortune Contador has.

[cryptique]

It's selective sportsmanship, though. It's afforded to certain riders and not others. In effect, it's a sort of class-system microcosm.

 

While gentlemanly, it's also complete crap. Bad luck is part of any competition, and taking advantage of another competitor's bad luck is called strategy. Golf is a gentleman's game, but you don't see players intentionally missing tap-in putts to make up for a piece of bad luck that befell a competitor earlier. Those guys understand that you take advantage of everything that comes your way, because it's a competition.

 

Cyclists understand that too, obviously -- that's why so many of them have been caught up in blood-doping over the years -- which just makes the whole thing that much more ridiculous.

[Moss]

It's selective sportsmanship, though. It's afforded to certain riders and not others. In effect, it's a sort of class-system microcosm.

 

While gentlemanly, it's also complete crap. Bad luck is part of any competition, and taking advantage of another competitor's bad luck is called strategy. Golf is a gentleman's game, but you don't see players intentionally missing tap-in putts to make up for a piece of bad luck that befell a competitor earlier. Those guys understand that you take advantage of everything that comes your way, because it's a competition.

 

Cyclists understand that too, obviously -- that's why so many of them have been caught up in blood-doping over the years -- which just makes the whole thing that much more ridiculous.

 

 

In this particular case I don't have strong feelings. I agree that a chain falling off is much different than if maybe a fan jumped out and interfered or something like that. Keeping your bike in good condition is part of the competition and if your bike fails, maybe you should lose. I'm not a close enough follower of the sport to really know. I guess I'm casting a wider net. Coming off the world cup and seeing the win at all costs attitude started to sour me. The constant flops and people rolling on the ground in apparent agony when clearly nobody even touched them. Goalies pretending the ball did not go over the line when clearly they knew it did. There is obvioulsy different degrees of all this but the pendulum is swinging too far towards the "if you can get away with it, go for it" side.

[cryptique]

I agree with you there. I always expect some flopping and false appeals to the ref in soccer (and basketball), but it was amped up for the World Cup this year ... and Suarez swatting the ball off the line for Uruguay was the worst piece of poor sportsmanship I've seen in ages.

 

Compared to that, Contador's action was nothing. It didn't even break any rules.

[welch79]

rule-breaking: no

 

"douchey": most definitely

 

against "unwritten rules of the peloton": yes, and this is where he has already lost stock in the minds of many bike racers and directors throughout the cycling world (except maybe in Spain)

 

again, i am seeing comparisons to other sporting realms (golf, soccer, basketball) in regard to behaviors, rule following/bending, etc., and i have to reiterate that i don't believe that these comparisons work very well simply because cycling, in particular the tdf, is a pursuit that pretty unique in its following of a gentlemen's agreement type of accord. true, it is a sport in that competition is involved, but the main reason it has survived all this doping business is its deep tradition in france and most of europe.

 

i think a call to evolve and let tradition reside in the past on this particular issue sort of kills what makes the tdf so unique in today's world. and, i think it is wrong to assert that the tdf is not a parade because it most definitely is a national parade! (this is part of the unique nature of the tdf.)

 

as far as the doping goes, if you are going to decry cycling due to all the doping, you may as well out the rest of the professional sporting universe. cycling has only been at the forefront of the news because its standards have been the most stringent. if there were daily and off-season tests as there are in pro cycling in other sports, i am sure we would hear that cycling is right on par with other sports.

 

hear me correctly, however: i don't agree with doping of any sort, whether it be blood or substance...i think that it became the sort of necessary evil to compete at that level. i think that this year's tour is one of the cleanest in a great long while.

[cryptique]

as far as the doping goes, if you are going to decry cycling due to all the doping, you may as well out the rest of the professional sporting universe. cycling has only been at the forefront of the news because its standards have been the most stringent. if there were daily and off-season tests as there are in pro cycling in other sports, i am sure we would hear that cycling is right on par with other sports.

Cycling's doping standards have become the most stringent because they had to. Doping was probably more rampant in cycling, at its peak, than in any other sport. Doping also has more of an obvious benefit in cycling than in virtually any other sport, being one of the ultimate tests of fitness, endurance, pain tolerance, and recovery.

 

Rather undercuts the whole "gentlemanly" aspect of it, no? They still cling to those traditions, but they effectively trashed them years ago.

 

Give me all-out competition over gentlemanly deference any day.

[welch79]

we will just have to agree to disagree here, settling instead upon a shared appreciation/enjoyment of the sport.

 

[welch79]

The boys make nice.

[caliber66]

Give me all-out competition over gentlemanly deference any day.

I'm all for that, but I'd rather beat someone because I'm better than he is, not because he had technical difficulties.

[cryptique]

Me too, but it's part of any sport. Nobody ever gave back a championship because a competitor encountered misfortune.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'm with Cryptique. Bad luck is part of any competition, and "better than he is" presumes the competition occurs in perfect conditions, which is never the case. This seems on par with a runner's racing flat coming untied in competition - would you expect the other runners to jog in place while s/he tied it again?