Inception

[LouisvilleGreg]

Saw it, loved it, whether taken as totally literal or in many of the theories explored in this thread and others. I think I'm finally prepared to state that Leo might be my favorite actor, say under the age of 45. His early films such as: Gibert Grape, Basketball Diaries and This Boy's Life all are top notch, and his Scorsese films have ranged from good: the Aviator and Gangs of New York to great: The Departed. Revolutionary Road and Blood Diamond were two other great films. He's really starting to be very consistent and I'm likely to go see a film just because he's in it, a rarity for me and any actor.

 

Also, while not spectacular, a pretty admirable performance from Ellen Page. I loved her early on in the dark and heavy, "Hard Candy," but have been waiting for her to get back to a role with some depth. This seemed a good choice for her and I look forward to her evolution as she ages out of the young adult typecast and into some meatier roles.

[augurus]

For those who have seen Inception, this article and the reader comments afterwards add great fuel to the fire of debate...

 

http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

If you're still arguing or talking about whether it was all a dream or not, you're still missing the point. If you're call it Christopher Nolan's dream, then you are stating a tautology.

 

 

1. Why someone shouldn't use another person's totem wasn't explained

2. Why did Cobb use Mal's totem?

3. The narrow alleyway

4. Who was Cobol Enterprises? (never explained - fits in with the "how did we get here?" dream rule.)

5. Ariadne seems to have been purposely named because she was helpful in leading Leo out of his own labyrinth (and it seems that was her only "real" purpose). The fact that Cobb's "wife" (I'm not even convinced she was ever real) was named "Mal" should be a huge clue - she's "bad".

 

Some quibbles: I thought the action was a snore - because since the sequences were all within a dream, there were no consequences. If you die in a dream, you wake up, or you go to limbo. If you die in limbo you wake up.

 

Didn't understand how the Escher staircases worked... They were an infinite staircase one second, and an illusion the next...

1. Why would they have to explain it if you could see the consequence and conclude on your own? Why does the film have to explicitly state everything?

2. See 1.

3. What about real life obstacles?

4. Whether or not Cobol Enterprises actually exists doesn't matter. Cobbs feels threatened by Cobol Enterprises after failing their mission. Saito gave a small background explanation.

Also, this: http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/inception-comic.html

5. Why not?

Q. Joseph Gordon Levitt performed in the best action sequence of the year. And there were consequences, especially to the section where they spoke about sedation levels. Dying in limbo did not necessarily mean you wake up.

 

Inception isn't going to hold your hand. As for everything else you've talked about, Inception has already shown the answers.

[Winston Legthigh]

 

 

Inception isn't going to hold your hand. As for everything else you've talked about, Inception has already shown the answers.

Christ - I see the same fans who went apeshit defending The Dark Knight are back.

 

Can't I have questions about the film without the fanboys getting defensive?

 

You guys love the film. I get it. You think it's airtight. That's great. I'm happy for you.

.

[Atticus]

It's a mesmerizing puzzle, yes, but for me I felt that the experience would have been so much greater had there been something more at stake.

 

this was the only real problem for me. I appreciated the time that was put into this movie making it interesting and different, but it kind of nagged me a bit that at the heart of all of this was one business trying to make a tactical move on another business. if the key inception had had to do with something a bit more noble/tragic/? it probably would have gotten me more invested emotionally, but all the same I certainly enjoyed the ride.

 

edit: This site has some good analysis.

 

also, one has to remember when getting into really tiresome, whiny arguments about this movie, that we're all accepting the premise that we can collectively hook up to a machine and all jump into someone's intentional dream with an architecturally-designed world, etc. So take some deep breaths, please.

[augurus]

Here is more on Penrose Stairs in case you didn't understand the explanation given.

 

You're allowed to have questions; however, the film had explicitly answered some of your questions while some of them were non-issues. I'm just stating that the film has clearly shown some of those answers. I'm asking you to pay closer attention.

 

Furthermore, if you have questions and you express them in a public (populated, or so I think we are) forum, then you should expect answers. Answers come in the form of agreement, disagreement, and non-conformity. By your repsonse, clearly you do not express disagreement which begs another question.

[Winston Legthigh]

Here is more on Penrose Stairs in case you didn't understand the explanation given.

 

You're allowed to have questions; however, the film had explicitly answered some of your questions while some of them were non-issues. I'm just stating that the film has clearly shown some of those answers. I'm asking you to pay closer attention.

 

Furthermore, if you have questions and you express them in a public (populated, or so I think we are) forum, then you should expect answers. Answers come in the form of agreement, disagreement, and non-conformity. By your repsonse, clearly you do not express disagreement which begs another question.

I understand the concept of the Penrose stairs. Let me state my question more clearly. When Arthur was fleeing down the staircase, he was able to go down a flight of stairs, and the defensive projection followed him down. Yet when the projection arrived at the next flight, Arthur was behind him and the downward staircase had a gap in it.

 

So, Arthur was able to use the staircase in its infinite 2D form, but for the projection, it had a 3D gap, and Arthur threw him down it.

 

Ach, nevermind.

 

My other questions were ones that I had originally, that were more than answered by the essay linked. Your answers don't really help my understanding of the film move forward at all.

[knotgreen]

saw this movie today. i think that it was a bit overdone. the opening was very long and boring, and only when leo and co. began to assemble their crew did i find myself interested. i think the story, while it initially seemed original, quickly felt reused and predictable. thus, the ending was a total flop for me. this movie reminded me a great deal of the first matrix movie, which i found to be far more entertaining.

 

also, maybe i'm late coming to this realization, but dicaprio plays the same damn role in every movie. he's always chasing something or being chased.

 

i don't understand the praise this movie has received. maybe i'll have to catch it again once it's available for rent.

[augurus]

I understand the concept of the Penrose stairs. Let me state my question more clearly. When Arthur was fleeing down the staircase, he was able to go down a flight of stairs, and the defensive projection followed him down. Yet when the projection arrived at the next flight, Arthur was behind him and the downward staircase had a gap in it.

 

So, Arthur was able to use the staircase in its infinite 2D form, but for the projection, it had a 3D gap, and Arthur threw him down it.

 

Ach, nevermind.

 

My other questions were ones that I had originally, that were more than answered by the essay linked. Your answers don't really help my understanding of the film move forward at all.

Arthur is the architect in the second layer.

 

Arthur manipulated the world so that he would create a Penrose Stairs to attack the projection, and manipulated the world again to kill him/it. Remember the explanation at the beginning with Ariadne where Cobbs explains that it takes awhile for projections and the mind to realize that they're running in a looping maze? That's what Arthur executed.

 

 

My best suggestion is watch it again (on DVD, in theater, whatever medium you choose). Most of the essays miss the focal point except for the link AtticusPoongoogler displayed. That's not a bad one at all. As for understanding of the film,...

 

 

The main focus of the film is not about what's real but what we do with what we experience, create, and how it influences all of us. And we eventually deal with the guilt of even creation, and how to absolve yourself, and what to do with what we experience. The entire film could be a metaphor for the creation of a film or movement through our states of existence.

 

I think that Inception is asking the viewers to take a moment to think about how we create and shape our world and think about what we do and how we influence everything. We carry our baggage everywhere subconsciously and we need to deal with that because it makes a difference no matter where we go (both Cobb and Fischer have to deal with this, regardless of the orchestrators).

 

 

I'm pretty sure there's a better explanation out there, but I haven't seen it yet.

[LouieB]

I saw this also this weekend. Not bad. Great special effects. Other than that....

 

For a better time with less expection on the same subject (and far cheezier effects) check out Dreamscape with Dennis Quaid, one of my all time favorite B movies. (Or rent The Heros of Telemark for more snow, skiing and blowing shit up....)

 

LouieB

[Synthesizer Patel]

I saw this also this weekend. Not bad. Great special effects. Other than that....

 

For a better time with less expection on the same subject (and far cheezier effects) check out Dreamscape with Dennis Quaid, one of my all time favorite B movies. (Or rent The Heros of Telemark for more snow, skiing and blowing shit up....)

 

LouieB

 

HEY! I've been banging on about this a few times in this thread. Finally, someone else that has seen DREAMSCAPE!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrtOAC-wsE

[Dude]

HEY! I've been banging on about this a few times in this thread. Finally, someone else that has seen DREAMSCAPE!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCrtOAC-wsE

 

Hah! Dreamscape. Another movie that comes to mind is:

 

[Synthesizer Patel]

i've never seen Brainstorm, looks like it'd be cool though.

 

i was trying to think of my favourite dream sequences in films, but i don't know if i should hi-jack this thread, even-though it is kind of related.

[u2roolz]

Interesting article from Film Comment:

 

Cats & Dogs: The Revenge Of Kitty Galore - Kitty Galore: The Phantom Menace? {2 stars}

by Adoniram Smith

 

As I sit in this refreshingly air conditioned theater, I am sipping my recently purchased Tazo Passion Tea Lemonade from Starbuck's. It is deelish. It's a hot sticky, summer day out there and it got me to thinking about spending a nice weekend on the Hamptons with Thaddeus & Chad. Maybe they'll break my eventual boredom and tweet me on my fancy iPad. It would be rather nice to have a nice golden tan for the Toronto Film Festival happening in a few weeks. I look rather haggard. Ok. The movie is starting.

 

Where do filmmakers get off by not revealing a major villain? Where was Ms. Kitty Galore? Voiced by a rather festive Bette Midler, I might add. Was she marooned on the cutting room floor? I know that I heard her voice in this film, but I didn't see her at all. At least in George Lucas' atrocious Episode I: The Phantom Menace, Emperor Palpatine was also simultaneously shown as a Senator as well. Not necessarily that much of a "phantom menace" if you show him, but we get your point good old Georgie Boy.

 

This reminds me of that recent imbroglio of a film by fanboys' newest wet dream of a director: Christopher Nolan. Inception {1 star} was like Leonardo Mnemonic. I'll admit it was tough to keep up on the film while Thaddeus kept tweeting me about this trendy Mexican Tapas place that he found in Lower Manhattan. I'll have to go and check it out sometime. Anyways, where does Christopher Nolan get off not showing the big, bad corporate company? Are we left to assume for ourselves that Cobol is actually those folks running around after DiCaprio in his dreams or reality or whatever? By introducing Cobol Enterprises in his film and not showing them at all and leaving me very upset, I am calling it out to be nugatory. Speaking of which, my snuck in Snicker's bar is getting rather melted in between my black Kenneth Cole's.

 

At least Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof showed us the concealed Jacob in the 2nd to last season. If they never showed him, I would have been very upset. You need to play by Chekhov's Gun's rules, Hollywood! Chekhov's Gun is just not used to hold up convenience stores, it is now being used to hold up moviegoers for their $14.50.

 

Taking us back on topic, let me get back to the idea of an unseen Kitty Galore. I can kind of respect the fact that it may be an homage to Dr. Claw in Inspector Gadget. Basically, Kitty Galore is an ersatz of Dr. Claw. There I just came out and said it. What a waste of paying Bette Midler all of that money! I wonder what she actually would have looked like as a cat. All that I can do is hear her voice from a distance.

 

I'm off to catch a special screening of Nicholas Ray's Bigger Than Life at the BAM Rose. Plus, they're giving me the boot at Starbuck's for using their wi-fi. What happened to the covenant between Starbuck's and its' customers?

 

Film Comment Official Link

[LouieB]

HEY! I've been banging on about this a few times in this thread. Finally, someone else that has seen DREAMSCAPE!

 

 

 

I have seen Dreamscape many many times, both in the theater and on video. I got turned on to it by one of Beltman's hero's Pauline Kael when she reviewed it in the New Yorker. So Beltman...rush out and rent the thing, you won't be disappointed. It is cleverly written, genuinely scary, and thought provoking. Each dream sequence is clever and to the point. I have not seen it in a few years so maybe it sucked and my memory is faulty, but minute for minute is far more entertaining than Inception, which became ponderous and stupid and not not so entertaining after awhile.

 

I am certainly not going to wade into the argument either way, because frankly this movie just isn't worth THAT much time.

 

Now everyone go out and rent the other movie I refered to The Heros of Telemark, because they borrowed plenty from that movie too, for what was the worst part of Inception (the snow on the mountain fortress scene). It is also a fun movie.

 

LouieB

[cryptique]

I haven't seen this film yet, but I do think this is kind of cool:

 

Inception's musical secret

 

[Beltmann]

I haven't seen this film yet, but I do think this is kind of cool:

 

Inception's musical secret

 

Wow, that is cool. I didn't notice that while watching, but I did notice how Edith Piaf's song was featured in a movie starring an actress best-known for playing Edith Piaf (Marion Cotillard won an Oscar for La Vie en Rose).

[Synthesizer Patel]

I have seen Dreamscape many many times, both in the theater and on video. I got turned on to it by one of Beltman's hero's Pauline Kael when she reviewed it in the New Yorker. So Beltman...rush out and rent the thing, you won't be disappointed. It is cleverly written, genuinely scary, and thought provoking. Each dream sequence is clever and to the point. I have not seen it in a few years so maybe it sucked and my memory is faulty, but minute for minute is far more entertaining than Inception, which became ponderous and stupid and not not so entertaining after awhile.

 

i think i saw dreamscape when i was probably too young to be watching it. david patrick kelly frightened me a fair bit in the dream sequences - obviously the budget is lower, but the acting is probably better and it's just a very cool film.

 

one thing about inception (this is from seeing a making of it on tv) - but who exactly ever has dreams like that? michael bay perhaps, but normal people? i think you'd only have dreams like that if you a cgi guy working on the latest hollywood popcorn hit, and didn't take enough time to relax before you went to bed.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I have seen Dreamscape many many times, both in the theater and on video. I got turned on to it by one of Beltman's hero's Pauline Kael when she reviewed it in the New Yorker. So Beltman...rush out and rent the thing, you won't be disappointed. It is cleverly written, genuinely scary, and thought provoking. Each dream sequence is clever and to the point. I have not seen it in a few years so maybe it sucked and my memory is faulty, but minute for minute is far more entertaining than Inception, which became ponderous and stupid and not not so entertaining after awhile.

 

I am certainly not going to wade into the argument either way, because frankly this movie just isn't worth THAT much time.

 

Now everyone go out and rent the other movie I refered to The Heros of Telemark, because they borrowed plenty from that movie too, for what was the worst part of Inception (the snow on the mountain fortress scene). It is also a fun movie.

 

LouieB

 

So...you really liked Dreamscape and thought Inception was "ponderous and stupid"?

 

Really?

[LouieB]

So...you really liked Dreamscape and thought Inception was "ponderous and stupid"?

 

Really?

Well that is not exactly what I said. First off, Dreamscape is a small film with zero pretention, low budget and goofy premise. On the level it was made, the budget they had and with the script that they had, it is brilliant. Is it a great film?/...nah of course not. Inception on the other hand had a huge budget, A list actors, all the special effects anyone could ever hope for and very high expectations, it doesn't fail (I was mostly entertained), but by the third level (the Heros of Telemark sequences, with huge body counts etc.) I did find it ponderous and stupid. They lost me at that point. At no point during the small low budget Dreamscape (except during some of the scenes with George Wendt) did I lose interest and I was able to continue to give the creators my confidence and suspension of disbelief. Meanwhile I had more than a few "Oh come on" moments in Inception. It was brilliant when it was brilliant (in the first hour or so) and then it dragged and was just entirely too violent.

 

I pretty much agree with the review in the New Yorker a couple weeks ago. Check out that one.

 

Movies (just like music albums) can have high points and low points. By the way, a really stunning small movie out this season is Winter's Bone. If you have not seen it I highly recommend it. Unlike Inception it is based in reality and has brilliant acting, directing and script. Not saying one is better than the other, but it left me pondering what happened long after I had shaken my hangover from Inception.

 

LouieB

[Winston Legthigh]

I just want to know why, in any of the dreams, nobody started flying, nobody was suddenly naked and self-aware, nobody was late for a final exam that they never studied for, and there were no boobs. None.

[Synthesizer Patel]

I just want to know why, in any of the dreams, nobody started flying, nobody was suddenly naked and self-aware, nobody was late for a final exam that they never studied for, and there were no boobs. None.

 

that is what it said (kind of) in the review i read. although that is perhaps taking it too far, i do think the clips i've seen aren't dreamlike at all, they just look like hollywood action scenes - the clip they keep showing with loads of stuff blowing up (after he's told kitty pryde - or whatever her name is - "that she's really asleep on a work bench!" or something like that, and things go crazy. ) just looks like this advert (below). actually, if anything that ad is more weird and dreamlike.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjaCpffby8A

 

i need to stop slaggin this film off, until i see it!

[Winston Legthigh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M6dYiIbRKM&feature=player_embedded

[LouieB]

I just want to know why, in any of the dreams, nobody started flying, nobody was suddenly naked and self-aware, nobody was late for a final exam that they never studied for, and there were no boobs. None.

Yea, really..there is NEVER that much shooting in my dreams...in fact there are hardly ever car chases and machine gun fire. I must live a really dull inner life....

 

LouieB

[Synthesizer Patel]

guns and shooting in dreams probably have something to do with impotence or something, anyway. so i wouldn't worry. myself, i've had a few zombie dreams recently, but i've never got a gun, i'm normally hiding or running.

[cryptique]

I haven't seen this film yet, but I do think this is kind of cool:

 

Inception's musical secret

 

Here's a bit more on this, from the composer himself.