Doug C Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 How about, atheists don't believe in God and believers do believe in God? I actually agree with you, by the way. It is hard to resist smartassery sometimes (not that you would know anything about that). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Your fallacy is in equating atheism and science. There are are atheists who are not people of science. More importantly, there are scientists who are people of faith. You can't equate atheism and science. But the fact remains that atheists at least have some scientific evidence on their side and are not relying on this nebulous idea of faith. And woud probably be able to admit they were wrong if there was a shred of evidence otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 And woud probably be able to admit they were wrong if there was a shred of evidence otherwise. Why are atheists supposed to be any less prideful than people of faith? Not wanting to admit when you're wrong is a central tenet of humanity. I say that partly in jest, but certainly with an element of truth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 's advocateFixed. Somebody was bored on a snow day last week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Why are atheists supposed to be any less prideful than people of faith? Not wanting to admit when you're wrong is a central tenet of humanity. I say that partly in jest, but certainly with an element of truth. I think the big difference is that for a religious person to admit they were wrong might shake them to the very core of their being. And certainly they seem to retain their faith in the face of some pretty overwhelming evidence to the contrary (at least for christianity). I think many atheists probably hope they are wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I think the big difference is that for a religious person to admit they were wrong might shake them to the very core of their being. And certainly they seem to retain their faith in the face of some pretty overwhelming evidence to the contrary (at least for christianity). I think many atheists probably hope they are wrong. I think atheists probably hope they are wrong as often - or no more often - than believers hope they are right. In a thread about the most devoted atheists - people who have made a living proving that there is no or are no god(s), to say that admitting they were wrong wouldn't shake them to the core of their being rings false. Further, to have amassed the followings they have, there must be more people out there like them (and I know several) for whom a large part of their identity is being one of the non-believers, one of the atheists. I suppose my succinct point is that for people who devote a large amount of their identity to believing or to not-believing, there isn't one "big difference" separating their reactions to being wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 As an atheist, if I were presented with definitive evidence proving that the universe was both created and administered by a “god” I would reevaluate my current mode of thinking. Whereas, through science and reasoning, we now know that the universe is not 6000 years old, Adam and Eve were not tricked into eating fruit by a dastardly snake, etc etc etc – yet these are still commonly held beliefs. A recent poll, I believe it was based on census data, stated that 60% of Americans accept the creationists’ view as it relates to our origins. It would certainly seem that no amount of evidence to the contrary will suffice where dogmatic religious beliefs are concerned. I will go out on a limb here and suggest that - if presented with persuasive evidence proving the existence of a god – most atheists would be willing to accept the evidence, and, as a result, adjust their views. Why? Because, unlike most religions, an atheist doctrine based on dogmatic beliefs one must follow doesn’t exist. I’ve found that most folks who claim, say, Dawkins for example, is just as dogmatic as a Christian fundamentalist know very little about Dawkins, nor have they read his books – only one of which addresses religion head on. The others are primarily concerned with biology. I would be thrilled to live forever, reacquainted with family members who have passed – but the fact is, we have zero evidence to support this belief – outside of texts written thousands of years ago, by folks who barely possessed a rudimentary sense of science, astronomy, physics, biology, etc – all of which is reflected in the bible. Where it appears that god himself is not aware that the universe does not revolve around the earth, illnesses are not caused by demon possessions, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 It's interesting how you always pit atheism against fundamental Christianity when talking about how religion is false and/or dogmatic. How was the census question phrased, I wonder? If it was simply presented how you stated it ("Do you believe the creationist view of our origins?"), I could see plenty of people saying yes who believe that the creationism story carried out far earlier than 6,000 years ago, Adam & Ever were amoeba, or any other kind of variation. One simple question can't encapsulate all of Christianity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I suppose my succinct point is that for people who devote a large amount of their identity to believing or to not-believing, there isn't one "big difference" separating their reactions to being wrong. I don't agree with this. For a believer to suddenly come to terms with death being just "lights out" and nothing more is a much harder sell than for a non believer to suddenly find out that yay, I get to see all the people I love and play harp all day. Fear of death is probably the biggest driver for religion, that can only change for the better if a non believer is wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ih8music Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I don't agree with this. For a believer to suddenly come to terms with death being just "lights out" and nothing more is a much harder sell than for a non believer to suddenly find out that yay, I get to see all the people I love and play harp all day. Fear of death is probably the biggest driver for religion, that can only change for the better if a non believer is wrong.... unless said non-believer realizes that they get the h-e-double hockey sticks version of the afterlife Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Gyrrr Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I always heard that you can repent on your deathbed. Is it true ? As long as you mean it? I've got a christian metal band in the studio at the moment I should really just ask them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I always heard that you can repent on your deathbed. Is it true ? As long as you mean it? I've got a christian metal band in the studio at the moment I should really just ask them. Yay, Stryper is back! On another note: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I've seen commercials lately telling me that it's Porn Week at Church. I'm not sure even THAT can compete with the Super Bowl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What is that? Christian porn? Reenactments of David and Bathsheba's affar? I always thought that was steamy as a youth in Sunday school. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What is that? Christian porn? Reenactments of David and Bathsheba's affar? I always thought that was steamy as a youth in Sunday school. Porn Week at Church I'm quite sure that several people (some probably wearing robes) were severely disappointed when they showed up at service without having checked out that website first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Parade Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I do not believe in God. I don't believe the story of Jesus and I don't think when we die we go to heaven or hell to be judged. That just seems so cheesy to me. I do believe in the energy of the universe and the power of intention and think that at times this is confused as being some kind of miracle of God. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Gyrrr Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The power of intention? That sounds interesting. As a procrastinator I'm very much into that. No matter your thoughts on religion I think we are all in awe of the power of the universey wersey! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spawn's dad Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=9E0C0CNU Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sgtpepper64 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I think the mistake here is equating Atheism with being some sort of belief system. I think atheism is simply taking the evidence for what we know about life and the universe and deducing the only thing that makes sense, logically. Atheism is without a leap of faith and one doesn't have to suspend rational thinking, as well as reality to believe it. NOTHING I read or hear is gonna change my faith. NOTHING. I think that quote is very evident of the difference between religious thinkers, and atheistic thinkers. Whereas atheism is seeing a lack of evidence for a supreme being, therefor choosing not to acknowledge some far-fetched notion that there might be one, religion is the exact opposite. There is, and never has been any one single piece of physical evidence for a god. Ever. Never ever. So, in order to believe there is a god, you have to suspend your own reality. Atheists don't do that. Now, presented with the proper evidence, I think many would reconsider their thought process. And as far as churches being positive outlets for social change, think back to what the Mormon church did to proposition 8 in California. Colleges and places of real education are positive outlets for social change because they encourage free-thinking and education, not dogma and damnation. I guess I see it from a different perspective. I think atheists have much more religion thrown in their face on a daily basis. And even though you personally don't try to change atheists into believers, conversion is a huge tenet of many people's religion. I have never had someone show up at my door trying to convert me to atheism. I don't have friends posting on facebook how happy they are today that god is not in their life. I certainly would not try to convert anyone either way but I could see from an atheists perspective, religion has caused a myriad of ills in society (you know what they are, I'm not going to list them). It personally frightens the hell out of me when a politician (like Dubya) proclaims that he is literally making decisions based on what god tells him. Atheists are the minority in this country and it's much less accepted then being religious. Think about the very slim chance of an atheist president being elected anytime in the near future. When it comes down to it, anyone who claims to know anything for sure is a complete idiot, and anyone who claims to have spoken to god is not a divine medium, but a person with severe mental problems. I know the same amount about the existence of god as the Pope, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Joel Osteen (and his horrifying smile) or anyone else who claims to know "the truth." All we can do as human beings and rational thinkers, is take a look at the evidence around us and make up our mind about what is more rational and realistic, and in that sense, I think the answer is fairly obvious, and you don't need a leap of faith to come to that conclusion. I think the percentage of religious people who KNOW that there is a god is way higher than the percentage of atheists who think there probably isn't one, based on the evidence. And until people accept that they, their preacher, their family and their tradition may just be wrong, there is no hope of real change in the minds of the people in this world. Just because something is convenient and popular, does not make it right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.