General Political Thread

[tinnitus photography]

That's some pretty ineffective blurring of his address, etc.

 

wasn't my gaussian blur.

[tinnitus photography]

Billions, really? Source?

 

i can't recall the source of this quote that i sent my father-in-law earlier this year, but i've been in the MFG  or engineering part of biotech for my entire career and this sounds about right:

 

 

 

How much does it really cost to develop a drug?  Well after going back 10 years and analyzing 98 companies, 66 of the 98 having launched only one drug in the 10 year period, the numbers are in and based on the recently published results they are not promising.  For those company's who have developed one (1) drug over the 10 year period of the analysis the median cost was $350M.  However, for those company's with multiple drug approvals over the 10 year period the cost skyrockets to $5.5B, with a "B", per commercialized drug.  Leading the list is Sanofi at $10B per drug for 6 drugs it saw approved in the 10 year period followed by AstraZeneca at $9.5B per drug for its 4 drugs approved, then and the list goes on to include in order Roche, Pfizer, Wyeth, Lilly, Bayer, Novartis and Takeda make up the Top 10.  Abbott led the list but with its numbers lumped together with medical devices its drug development costs specifically could not be determined.  And the reason for these astronomical costs amongst those with multiple drugs commercialized over the 10 year period, FAILURE.  While a successful one and done drug development program can be very lucrative what with leading biopharma's seeking to supplement increasingly weak development pipelines, stay in the batters box too long and take a few extra swings for the fences and your losses can quickly add up. 

Is that supposed to be funny? (to the letter above)

 

i dunno. i guess it depends on your sense of humor.

 

 

 

i found it downright fucking hilarious, as did my friends. maybe it's just us.

[Hixter]

Billions, really? Source?

 

Wikipedia

Studies published by diMasi et al. in 2003, report an average pre-tax, capitalized cost of approximately $800 million to bring one of the drugs from the study to market. Also, this $800 million figure includes opportunity costs of $400 million.^[2] A study published in 2006 estimates that costs vary from around $500 million to $2 billion depending on the therapy or the developing firm.^[3] A study published in 2010 in the journal Health Economics, including an author from the US Federal Trade Commission, was critical of the methods used by diMasi et al. but came up with a higher estimate of ~$1.2 billion.^[4]

 

Forbes

The average drug developed by a major pharmaceutical company costs at least $4 billion, and it can be as much as $11 billion.

[Hixter]

wasn't my gaussian blur.

Sorry, I didn't intend to imply that it was.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

And Americans pay a disproportionately high price for medications too.

[Hixter]

And Americans pay a disproportionately high price for medications too.

Who pays the price in other countries?

[tinnitus photography]

the pharma companies.

[Hixter]

the pharma companies.

How can they spend billions developing new drugs and then eat the cost?

[tinnitus photography]

they just have a lower profit margin. the price is negotiated.

[Bob_Roberts]

 

 

If I could stand the cold, I'd move to Europe and get into a socialized medicine system. The way we get screwed here is absolutely criminal. Watch Sicko, and you will see just how bad it really is. But we keep putting up with it, because unfettered capitalism is our god here in the good ol' USA.

So would I.  Seriously.  Our f-ed up medical system, education system, banking system, government... it's all a part of the same problem: our goddamn government is run by a bunch of rich fuckers.  The incentives are so fucked up right now.

 

This whole government shutdown has really pushed me over the edge: I just cannot and will not tolerate a goddamn Republican in my presence.  They're all bad right now but the Repubs are just absolutely monstrous.  Time to tax the rich at 91%.

 

Or move to Norway.

[KevinG]

Is that supposed to be funny? (to the letter above)

 

It is call irony, and yes it is funny.  

[Guest Jules]

Thanks.

Cheap thrills I guess.

[tinnitus photography]

you seem shaken by it. it's just a harmless analogy.

[Guest Jules]

Oh I know. I just didn't think it was funny that's all.

[uncool2pillow]

I spent 5 and a half years obtaining my Bachelor's and Master's degrees and I have 12 years of experience in my field, which is a demanding one...but I will be lucky if I can ever afford to have more than one child. So yeah, I don't sit around feeling sorry for ANY doctors or dentists and their financial situations. Maybe if the guy's wife got a job, they would have fewer "concerns."

This and many other statements you made about doctors sure paint with a broad stroke.  Reminds me of the kinds of things some people on the right were saying about my profession (public teacher) around the time Scott Walker was stirring things up in Wisconsin.  I have a family doctor, have seen a few specialists in my time, my son sees a pediatric neurologist.  I have had bad experiences with a small handful, but I firmly believe the great majority have striven to provide me and or my loved ones with appropriate care.  

 

Most of the make a helluva lot more money than me, but I believe they deserve it.  Their education, hours, and expertise demand greater pay.  If you feel lowering pay is going to get rid of some selfish doctors who are just in it for the money, then we certainly ought not be advocating increasing pay for teachers.  Will drive the wrong kind of people into that profession.

[KevinG]

Oh I know. I just didn't think it was funny that's all.

 

regardless if you think it is funny or not, you do understand the analogy right?  

 

IMHO if you understand the analogy it makes it funnier.  

[tinnitus photography]

Oh I know. I just didn't think it was funny that's all.

 

 

you are definitely the outlier, if the sample size of my facebook friends is any indication.

[KevinG]

you are definitely the outlier, if the sample size of my facebook friends is any indication.

 

which is the gold standard in what is funny.  

 

BTW you see what Jules has done, he deflected the substance (or point) of the letter and went after its humor.  It is a perfect analogy of what the GOP is doing, distilled into terms that is easy to understand.  Though to be fair John Stewart did the same analogy with the Giant's game a couple of weeks ago.  So it wasn't that original, but the execution was tremendous.  

[tinnitus photography]

which is the gold standard in what is funny.   

 

for me, yes.

 

i crave validation.

 

 

CRAVE IT!

[Guest Jules]

BTW you see what Jules has done, he deflected the substance (or point) of the letter and went after its humor.  It is a perfect analogy of what the GOP is doing, distilled into terms that is easy to understand. 

 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

This and many other statements you made about doctors sure paint with a broad stroke.  Reminds me of the kinds of things some people on the right were saying about my profession (public teacher) around the time Scott Walker was stirring things up in Wisconsin.  I have a family doctor, have seen a few specialists in my time, my son sees a pediatric neurologist.  I have had bad experiences with a small handful, but I firmly believe the great majority have striven to provide me and or my loved ones with appropriate care.  

 

Most of the make a helluva lot more money than me, but I believe they deserve it.  Their education, hours, and expertise demand greater pay.  If you feel lowering pay is going to get rid of some selfish doctors who are just in it for the money, then we certainly ought not be advocating increasing pay for teachers.  Will drive the wrong kind of people into that profession.

We all know it's not just that doctors make an extremely large amount of money compared to the average person. It's also the pharmaceutical companies, as I said. Unfortunately, many of the people who would like to maintain the status quo are in denial about these things. Take a look at the history of the stock prices for companies like Merck, Pfizer, etc. They were pretty flat through much of the 80s, when Reagan was president, and into the 90s. Then they spiked quite a bit. This is history, not just my opinion. Check it out, the pattern is obvious. Like most large corporations, they consider themselves to be responsible to their shareholders, not to the public at large. And corporations are people, my friends.

[John Smith]

Regardless of how you feel about doctors and the various components if the medical profession, there is no denying that the costs to access medical care in the US have far and away outpaced inflation. So there is a ton of money being made there.

[uncool2pillow]

We all know it's not just that doctors make an extremely large amount of money compared to the average person. It's also the pharmaceutical companies, as I said. Unfortunately, many of the people who would like to maintain the status quo are in denial about these things. Take a look at the history of the stock prices for companies like Merck, Pfizer, etc. They were pretty flat through much of the 80s, when Reagan was president, and into the 90s. Then they spiked quite a bit. This is history, not just my opinion. Check it out, the pattern is obvious. Like most large corporations, they consider themselves to be responsible to their shareholders, not to the public at large. And corporations are people, my friends.

Wow. Other than your 1st sentence, this has nothing to do with my post. I didn't -- and mostly wouldn't -- defend the tactics, salaries, or profit margins of pharma companies except to say those who develop truly life-saving meds deserve to be well-compensated. My post was entirely what you said about doctors and you pretty much ignored my reply. But thanks for your thoughts anyway.

[IRememberDBoon]

Why do folks like Hixter immediately come to the defense of doctors and CEOs, pharma companies and folks making over 250K (you know its tough out there) but when someone asks for a minimum wage raise or talks about teachers and its under the bus and forget them. Let them figure it out in the open market is the call.

Is that the Christian way or what? I don't get it

 

[IRememberDBoon]

cut n paste

 

#1 According to a study conducted by the Mayo Clinic, 70 percent of Americans are on at least one prescription drug.  An astounding 20 percent of all Americans are on at least five prescription drugs.

#2 According to the CDC, approximately 9 out of every 10 Americans that are at least 60 years of age say that they have taken at least one prescription drug within the last month.

#3 The 11 largest pharmaceutical companies combined to rake in approximately $85,000,000,000 in profits in 2012.

#4 During 2013, Americans will spend more than 280 billion dollars on prescription drugs.

#5 According to Alternet, last year “11 of the 12 new-to-market drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration were priced above $100,000 per-patient per-year”.

#6 The CDC says that spending on prescription drugs more than doubled between 1999 and 2008.

#7 Many prescription drugs cost about twice as much in the United States as they do in other countries.

#8 One study found that more than 20 percent of all American adults are taking at least one drug for “psychiatric” or “behavioral” disorders.

#9 The percentage of women taking antidepressants in America is higher than in any other country in the world.

#10 Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than children in Europe are.

#11 A shocking Government Accountability Office report discovered that approximately one-third of all foster children in the United States are on at least one psychiatric drug.  In fact, the report found that many states seem to be doping up foster children as a matter of course.  Just check out these stunning statistics…

In Texas, foster children were 53 times more likely to be prescribed five or more psychiatric medications at the same time than non-foster children. In Massachusetts, they were 19 times more likely. In Michigan, the number was 15 times. It was 13 times in Oregon. And in Florida, foster children were nearly four times as likely to be given five or more psychotropic medications at the same time compared to non-foster children.

#12 In 2010, the average teen in the U.S. was taking 1.2 central nervous system drugs.  Those are the kinds of drugs which treat conditions such as ADHD and depression.

#13 The total number of Americans taking antidepressants doubled between 1996 and 2005.

#14 All of those antidepressants don’t seem to be working too well.  The suicide rate for Americans between the ages of 35 and 64 rose by close to 30 percent between 1999 and 2010.  The number of Americans that are killed by suicide now exceeds the number of Americans that die as a result of car accidents.

#15 According to the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, 36 million Americans have abused prescription drugs at some point in their lives.

#16 A survey conducted for the National Institute on Drug Abuse found that more than 15 percent of all U.S. high school seniors abuse prescription drugs.

#17 According to the CDC, approximately three quarters of a million people a year are rushed to emergency rooms in the United States because of adverse reactions to pharmaceutical drugs.

#18 According to the Los Angeles Times, drug deaths (mostly caused by prescription drugs) are climbing at an astounding rate….

Drug fatalities more than doubled among teens and young adults between 2000 and 2008, years for which more detailed data are available. Deaths more than tripled among people aged 50 to 69, the Times analysis found. In terms of sheer numbers, the death toll is highest among people in their 40s.

#19 In the United States today, prescription painkillers kill more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined.

#20 Each year, tens of billions of dollars is spent on pharmaceutical marketing in the United States alone.