General Political Thread

[LouieB]

But aren't those people who dropped out of the labor force supposed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Shouldn't they be considered whiny crybabies for giving up, instead of just taking whatever they can get?

I'm just trying to get my head around the whole Ayn Rand/Darwin approach to social justice.

Maybe HIxter can shed some light on that for ya!!!

LouieB

[Hixter]

Maybe HIxter can shed some light on that for ya!!!

I've never collected unemployment, so I have no experience in that area.

[LouieB]

I've never collected unemployment, so I have no experience in that area.

Lucky you I guess.  I suppose no one else is ever supposed to need it either.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

Not addressed to anyone in particular:

 

It's possible to have a discussion with someone who holds different views without putting words in their mouths, calling them out by name or getting snarky. We're all adults and it's not really all that difficult to be polite to someone with whom we disagree.

[LouieB]

It might be.  I am all in favor of discussing how to reduce gun violence or reduce the deficit, but every time we do it seems like the solution from the right (not naming names) is to suggest that the government shouldn't be involved or that collective action isn't necessary.. 

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

I've spent far too much time debating those subjects here, but I've been polite the entire time. It wasn't difficult.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Actually, my post about unemployment was not directed to you specifically, nor did I call you out in any way. However, your response (within about 30 minutes of my post) was the immediate buzzkill type of response I expect from Fox "News." 

 

So should we view this news as bad? I happen to think that the economy adding over 250,000 jobs per month is pretty good...a damn sight better than in, say, late 2008, when the economy was hemorrhaging hundreds of thousands of jobs per month.

 

I suspect that we disagree on just about everything besides liking Wilco (I am also guessing that you made it onto this board out of some interest in them), but perhaps we can agree that adding 263,000 jobs in one month is quite good, and that it's encouraging to see the rate tick down to 7.7? Or no?

 

Edit: My bad, it was 236,000, not 263,000...see what an optimist I am?

[Hixter]

Actually, my post about unemployment was not directed to you specifically, nor did I call you out in any way. However, your response (within about 30 minutes of my post) was the immediate buzzkill type of response I expect from Fox "News." 

You weren't the person who called me out and it looks like my response came almost 3 hours after your post. As for Fox News, I've never watched it. Honestly.

 

perhaps we can agree that adding 263,000 jobs in one month is quite good, and that it's encouraging to see the rate tick down to 7.7?

I think it's 236,000 jobs and not 263,000, but I agree that every new job is a good thing for this country. I was just pointing out that hundreds of thousands (millions?) of Americans have stopped looking for jobs and they are not counted in unemployment figures, hence the Labor Department's statement that "the unemployment rate edged down to 7.7 percent in February but has shown little movement, on net, since September 2012."

 

There have been some encouraging signs over the past few months, but we're still in deep economic doodoo.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Here is an instructive chart on unemployment since 1948: http://www.multpl.com/unemployment

 

At it's worst, it was 10.8%...under Reagan, the saint of the right. Hilarious, no?

 

Jan 1, 1982 - 8.60%

Jan 1, 1983 - 10.40%

Jan 1, 1984 - 8.00%

 

Damn, how did that dude ever get reelected?

I know, I know...Americans don't even remember how things were last month, much less 30 years ago, but still.

 

Honestly, from a political point of view, I don't see much difference between "morning in America" and "hope and change." Negative campaigning usually works, but sometimes sounding positive does too.

 

 

 

[Winston Legthigh]

Damn, how did that dude ever get reelected?

 

Because Mondale promised to raise taxes?

[Hixter]

At it's worst, it was 10.8%...under Reagan, the saint of the right. Hilarious, no?

If I haven't mentioned it before, I'll do so now: I'm not exactly a staunch, right-wing Republican. I disagree with almost as many of their policies as I do the Democrats'. I'm registered as a Republican, but only because that's how I registered when I was 18 (under Reagan.)

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Okay.

[LouieB]

You might want to change parties since your Republicans are a heinous bunch and our Democratic President is the best Republican in a long time.  Government spending is at its lowest level in years, government employment levels are at record lows, and Barack is doing double back flips trying to get everyone to come to the fucking table.  Imagine a Romney presidency at this point. Yikes.

 

If the wars in Iraq and Afganistan had been on the books, instead of off the books, we wouldn't have this huge ass deficit.  Barack has killed more terrorists than George W could even think about.  There are just a lot of pissed off white people out there because we have non-white president, not because he is such a goddam socialist.  All of us more to the left than right know this.  We are still fighting the Civil War 150 years later, with states that need the Voting Rights Act to continue, but want to keep minorities from voting.  

 

I have said this numerous times here. I can totally understand fiscal conservancy and maybe there are aspects of the Affordable Care Act that could have been better thought out (maybe not in the way people want including a public option, etc.) but it is the gawd awful racist, homophbic, xenophobic, crazy-ass part of the Republican base that is going to doom it, not those who feel that we should be handling public money and public policy responsibly.  (Again I work fo the government I see stupid stuff every day of the week.)  If the Repubs didn't want to torpedo Barack simply because of who they think he is, rather than what he really stands for, this country might actually be better off.

 

Oh and yea, crazy ass Rand Paul had a pretty salient point the other day - we shouldn't be thinking of using drones to kill Americans on American soil (or anywhere really...)  But heaven for bid, those black guys, Barack and Eric should look soft on terrorists!!! so Holder hedged his bet, stupidly and landed on the wrong side of a pretty easy question. 

 

And strange that 3000 Americans lost their lives on George W Bush's watch.  No one ever mentions that, but four Americans get killed in Bengahzi and you would would think Barack was working for the Taliban. 

 

This is why the country is split so badly.  Not because Barack is such a raving socialist (clearly he is not), but because the guy looks like a foreigner. 

 

LouieB

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Holy shit, LouieB is living inside my head!

I should be a much bigger jazz expert as a result, but somehow I am not.

[LouieB]

Holy shit, LouieB is living inside my head!

I should be a much bigger jazz expert as a result, but somehow I am not.

I would say you are pretty good at that.actually.

 

Do you make as many spelling and grammar mistakes in your head as I do? 

 

i know that was quite a rant, but really!!!  The guy isn't all that far left. 

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

it is the gawd awful racist, homophbic, xenophobic, crazy-ass part of the Republican base that is going to doom it, not those who feel that we should be handling public money and public policy responsibly.  (Again I work fo the government I see stupid stuff every day of the week.)  If the Repubs didn't want to torpedo Barack simply because of who they think he is, rather than what he really stands for, this country might actually be better off.

I have to run out and drink beer on the street with the neighbors (how very King of the Hill) but I'll just say this:

 

If that's what you think the Republican party is, then don't be upset when someone on Fox News says that Democrats are all commies who want to force the nation's children into gay marriages with farm animals.

 

Consider yourself part of the problem when it comes to the partisan stalemate our political parties have reached. A little more of an open mind on your part would help. Myself, I have as many left-leaning friends as right-leaning and I'd never deride their parties or beliefs as you would do to Republicans. As I've said, more civility is in order in the naton's political discourse.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

The Republican platform itself is far to the right of most people who are actually registered as Republicans. Granting unborn fetuses the rights of life, liberty and property?? Hell, just look at who was in that primary: Bachmann, Perry, Newt, et al. No wonder so many called it a "clown car." 

 

Louie is correct in that the far right of the party seems to be driving the bus. Check out the numbers on how soundly the party was trounced in the 2012 election: 

Asians (not exactly known as the most down-trodden welfare-recipient type Americans): voted 76 percent for Obama versus 23 percent for Romney.

Latinos: voted 71% to 27%

African-Americans: (duh) voted 93% for Obama.

 

Unless the GOP wants to become nothing but a Southern, white party, they (those in power, not the average voter) will have to do some serious thinking about how to put forth ideas that are much less repugnant to the general populace. Talking about transvaginal probes and self-deportation...probably not the way to go.

Meanwhile, Obama has been more demonized as "other" than any president in recent history. He's not American, he's a commie, a Marxist, a socialist...in other words, he's not like "us," the white majority...you know, real Americans....the message has been about as subtle as a fart during a symphony, and it's gone on and on. The only rational explanation for that message is that it has an underlying element of xenophobia at best, or racism at worst. Again, that is what is coming from many people in power, not just from average voters.

[IRememberDBoon]

Factor in the amount of people who have dropped out of the labor force and, as the Labor Department says, "the unemployment rate edged down to 7.7 percent in February but has shown little movement, on net, since September 2012."

 

no I wont do that.

 

you cant argue with the NUMBER of jobs that were created anyway. AND they were higher than average $$$$ wise

 

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/08/fox-tells-viewers-to-take-lowest-unemployment-r/192971

[LouieB]

I am sure HIxter thinks Media Matters is just biased liberal media anyway. 

 

I also found the study about gun violence being less in states with more restrictive guns laws interesting and the study about gun ownership being lower than ever.  Someone else will have to post links to these.

 

We may be part of the problem, but the fact is that we are the majority at the moment so really its the Republicans that are the problem.

 

Until Hixter comes out and says he is for immigration reform, same sex marriage, and continuation of abortion rights, I would have to say he has thrown his lot in with the crazies.  Not all Repubs are crazy, some are perfectly sane, but since being opposed to  these issues seem to set most Republicans out of the mainstream of current thinking, those who have more moderate views, like bringing down the the deficit and being in favor of individual rights (both things which folks on the left are also in favor of incidently) it leaves those moderate conservatives out of the mainstream.

 

LouieB

[Tweedling]

I think this thread is a glowing example of most of the "lefties" I have as friends and/or come across. They name call, they demonize, they shun anyone with a traditional mindset or anyone who wants to hold on to what they may believe to be an American tradition. What were all the words you used earlier, Louie? Xenophobic? Gawd awful Racist? Crazy ass? Let's be honest there are extremes to both parties.

And the whole Civil War comment? We have a black president....the minority are white racists in this country. But let's not discuss the people of other races that are also racist....right? It's sad fact that racism isnt just a white issue. But it does seem like democrats are the ones always bringing up racism. Shit! Things have gotten so much better in just my 38 years of life on this planet and it kind of disgusts me to read Civil War comments like that. Especially after all the hard work from so many people of ALL color to change that type of thinking.

And finally, individual rights? Democrats are the party of individual rights?! The same party that tells us the sugary drinks and unhealthy

foods should not be available to us? That my individual income is too high I should give more back to the government? That my personal gun holds too many bullets? Democrats seem to claim the party of protecting individual rights.....when its THEIR individuals.

Im sorry but I just couldn't take it anymore.

[Hixter]

Until Hixter comes out and says he is for immigration reform, same sex marriage, and continuation of abortion rights, I would have to say he has thrown his lot in with the crazies.

I already did that here a month or two ago, but don't let it stand in the way of calling me crazy. It's only the Internet, so who needs manners, right?

[JUDE]

Louie is just really passionate about this stuff.

 

He's not normally like this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Yeah, I can't say that and keep a straight face.

[LouieB]

" The same party that tells us the sugary drinks and unhealthy"
Actually that would be Mayor Bloomberg who is mostly been a Republican all his life.  So you even have that wrong.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

Actually that would be Mayor Bloomberg who is mostly been a Republican all his life.  

Incorrect.

[Tweedling]

" The same party that tells us the sugary drinks and unhealthy"

Actually that would be Mayor Bloomberg who is mostly been a Republican all his life.  So you even have that wrong.

 

LouieB

Do I?