General Political Thread

[Tweedling]

You're naive if you think gun ownership is not a deterrent in Texas.

Maybe I'm missing something but both links seem to suck. One comes with a cautionary note and another samples only 5,000 people in Texas. I know you can't question every person in Texas but c'mon.

(and it was easy to google gun laws in NJ. They have a conceal and carry law but it's all but impossible unless youre a retired law enforcement officer)

[caliber66]

You're naive if you think gun ownership is not a deterrent in Texas.

Maybe I'm missing something but both links seem to suck. One comes with a cautionary note and another samples only 5,000 people in Texas. I know you can't question every person in Texas but c'mon.

(and it was easy to google gun laws in NJ. They have a conceal and carry law but it's all but impossible unless youre a retired law enforcement officer)

How would open- or concealed carry have affected the incident in the video Hixter posted?

 

If you're suggesting that Texas's gun ownership rates are higher than my link suggests (which I think you are), then it seems the cautionary link would have to have an even greater effect (which is already way larger than plausible) on the numbers to reverse the proportion of violent crime rates between the states and get them in line with your position.

[ih8music]

TX isn't all that bad.  Wendy Davis (and the other senators who assisted her) proved that tonight.

[LouieB]

You have a fixation and it's weird.

I didn't watch the video, ,but now this gun thing has become a fixation.  We begin talking about other stuff and the thread keeps getting turned back to guns.  Long ago we agreed you get to buy and keep guns. Can we move on now?  People in all states have and use guns.  People get killed (see Trayvon Martin) in every state in the union.  They get killed here in Chicago nearly every day. We have guns, both legal and illegal and we use them. 

 

I guess there is no other problem that needs fixing, since we figured out and agree on all the rest.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

Fair enough... but you didn't directly make that connection. 

Whenever I post a gun-related topic I'm asked why it was posted in this thread and I remind the questioner that this has been the gun control thread in the past. The routine gets old after a while.

 

Do you think the outcome would have been different/better if there was a gun in the house?

There's no way of knowing, but one thing is glaringly obvious: if you put those 2 people in a room together, the only chance the woman would have of winning the fight would be if she were armed. Unarmed, she'll lose the fight every time  (and maybe her life.)

 

Guns do not appear to be particularly heavily regulated, and ownership of both long guns and handguns is legal. Open- and concealed carry are allowed (with permit).

I would consider New Jersey's guns to be highly regulated:

 

State permit required to purchase.

Handgun registration.

Very few concealed carry permits issued to civilians.

"Assault" weapons ban.

Magazine capacity limit.

Do not honor concealed carry permits from other states.

 

I didn't watch the video, ,but now this gun thing has become a fixation.  We begin talking about other stuff and the thread keeps getting turned back to guns.  Long ago we agreed you get to buy and keep guns. Can we move on now? 

I guess yesterday's fetish is today's fixation. 

 

Judging by the responses, I'd say that VC still has plenty of gun control discussion left in it. Ignore it if you're tired of a topic; that's what I do.

[caliber66]

Perhaps restricted would have been a better word. If you're a law-abiding citizen and you want a gun, you can get one pretty easily.

[Hixter]

Perhaps restricted would have been a better word. If you're a law-abiding citizen and you want a gun, you can get one pretty easily.

If the state gives you a permit.

If it's a firearm the state finds acceptable.

If you haven't bought one in the last 30 days.

If you register it.

If you don't plan on carrying it outside of your home.

 

Them's a lot of ifs.

 

In Texas, I can walk into Walmart, pass a quick background check and walk out with a firearm a few minutes later. That's the way it should be everywhere.

[uncool2pillow]

That's the way it should be everywhere.

Why?  What's wrong with the "cooling off period"?

[Hixter]

Why?  What's wrong with the "cooling off period"?

Put yourself in the NJ housewife's shoes: she was brutally assaulted by a man who is still on the loose. She's also a key witness to the crime, so it's reasonable to conclude that the threat to her safety hasn't yet been removed.

 

Should she have to wait a week or more to be able to be able to protect herself?

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Should she have to wait a week or more to be able to be able to protect herself?

Nah, ADP has an 800# that is available 24/7.

In other news, the Supreme Court just overturned DOMA. Is that supposed to make me feel better about what they did to the Voting Rights Act yesterday? And, more importantly, does it make me a cynic for having that be my first reaction? 

[bleedorange]

It looks like Windsor is wrong and Perry is right. However, the results of both are excellent.

[bleedorange]

TX isn't all that bad.  Wendy Davis (and the other senators who assisted her) proved that tonight.

 

Who would have thought that a live feed of a state senate floor debate on parliamentary procedure would be so riveting?

[caliber66]

If the state gives you a permit.

If it's a firearm the state finds acceptable.

If you haven't bought one in the last 30 days.

If you register it.

If you don't plan on carrying it outside of your home.

 

Them's a lot of ifs.

 

In Texas, I can walk into Walmart, pass a quick background check and walk out with a firearm a few minutes later. That's the way it should be everywhere.

If you're a law abiding citizen and pass your background check, you can get a gun. There's no if there. 

 

 

 authorities do not have discretion and must issue permits to applicants who satisfy the criteria described in the statutes.

You can further discuss restrictions on what kinds of guns you can buy and where you can carry them, but if you want a gun, you can get one.

[LouieB]

Why is anyone arguing about this gun shit anymore?  Clearly you can get all the guns and ammo you want just about anywhere you live.  ANY restriction on the timing of getting those things is what Hixter is objecting to.  Why bother even arguing this. Everyone can get a gun; end of argument. 

 

Meanwhile other interesting political shit is going down and we are still beating this very dead horse. 

 

LouieB

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Meanwhile other interesting political shit is going down and we are still beating this very dead horse. 

 

LouieB

I tried, Lou. I tried.

[lost highway]

Meanwhile other interesting political shit is going down and we are still beating this very dead horse.

 

It's like the strategy for Sarah Palin.  Just ignore, and we'll all move on.

[bleedorange]

Meanwhile other interesting political shit is going down and we are still beating this very dead horse. 

 

LouieB

 

Yeah, I was trying too.

[LouieB]

I'm ignoring it.  Meanwhile that dude Zimmerman was carrying a gun and look what happened to him.  He felt empowered by carrying a gun and ended up getting into a scuffle and ended up killing someone.  Good work.

 

LouieB

[ih8music]

Indeed, on to more important discussions... so what's up with Zimmerman gaining 100+ lbs over the past year?

 

I'm only semi-joking, too.  I know a little about stress/depression eating, but that's quite a bit for even that.

[Hixter]

Why is anyone arguing about this gun shit anymore?

Because the second amendment is being eroded inch by inch, because politicians have made it a crime to own a piece of plastic and a spring, because the president has stated that he plans to push for even more restrictions and bans -- that's why. If you're tired of the conversation, skip over it and don't participate.

 

Clearly you can get all the guns and ammo you want just about anywhere you live. 

Clearly you haven't tried to buy a gun or ammo during the last 6 months.

 

Meanwhile other interesting political shit is going down and we are still beating this very dead horse.

Feel free to discuss it. 

[Hixter]

He felt empowered by carrying a gun and ended up getting into a scuffle and ended up killing someone who was smashing his head on the pavement and was beating the crap out of him "MMA-style."

Fixed it for ya.

[lost highway]

So while these details are unclear, and are being debated in a court of law you have already made up your mind what happened.  I'm glad you're not on the jury.

[uncool2pillow]

Fixed it for ya.

After blatantly ignoring the police's advice.  Not sure what justice is in this case, but I am sure that it was Zimmerman's initiating of the conflict (again, against the wishes of the police) that led to the death of Martin.  Was Martin at fault as well?  It certainly appears so, but again, the conflict was instigated by Zimmerman against police wishes.  Undisputed facts, no? 

[LouieB]

After blatantly ignoring the police's advice.  Not sure what justice is in this case, but I am sure that it was Zimmerman's initiating of the conflict (again, against the wishes of the police) that led to the death of Martin.  Was Martin at fault as well?  It certainly appears so, but again, the conflict was instigated by Zimmerman against police wishes.  Undisputed facts, no? 

Exactly.  Once Martin starting kicking the shit out of him, I suppose he had to kill him.  The question that will need to be decided I suppose by the jury is why the hell did he even get into that scuffle with Martin so that he could get his head bashed against the pavement and then have to shoot him.  Hixter won't answer that I am sure.

 

LouieB

[Hixter]

Hixter won't answer that I am sure.

Please let me speak for myself.