General Political Thread

[ih8music]

The illegals I know are a) only here to work, b ) terrified of doing anything that would get them deported, and c) politically apathetic/cynical -- so my guess is the the number is very low. Probably above zero, though.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

The illegals I know are terrified of doing anything that would get them deported

I suspect that this alone would keep the number very low.

Personally, I have lived in my area for about 18 years, but have never had to show photo ID...just a voter registration card. Then again, I don't look like my name could possibly be Carlos Danger, or anything like that, so...

[Tweedling]

Not to be condescending or rude but I believe it's naive to believe that these people are apolitical or that afraid of being deported. We've all voted and and I've never seen ICE agents at a polling station. Why wouldn't an illegal go vote for a president who endorses further funding of illegal aliens and their children? Hell they mingle in society as if they were citizens. I see it all the time. My cousin owns multiple restaurants and having family that farms, interacting with illegals are a common occurrence. My wife had an automobile accident with 2 illegal women. The police were called to do the report and when we asked if the ladies would have consequences for being here illegally the officer said its a low priority for the police department. One of my cousins employees got arested and was deported....he was back at his job in less than 3 weeks!

These are obviously things I've seen and caused me to think the way I do. I just find it difficult to believe that in the areas and neighborhoods that illegals live there isn't an organized movement AND successful voting block.

It's hard for me to swallow, "the more people that vote the better." when there are 11 million illegal potential voters. I do believe it's a wonderful right that makes this country different and great but it also should be treated as a precious right. (damn I'm rambling sorry)

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Not to be condescending or rude but I believe it's naive to believe that these people are apolitical or that afraid of being deported. We've all voted and and I've never seen ICE agents at a polling station. Why wouldn't an illegal go vote for a president who endorses further funding of illegal aliens and their children? Hell they mingle in society as if they were citizens. I see it all the time. My cousin owns multiple restaurants and having family that farms, interacting with illegals are a common occurrence. My wife had an automobile accident with 2 illegal women. The police were called to do the report and when we asked if the ladies would have consequences for being here illegally the officer said its a low priority for the police department. One of my cousins employees got arested and was deported....he was back at his job in less than 3 weeks! These are obviously things I've seen and caused me to think the way I do. I just find it difficult to believe that in the areas and neighborhoods that illegals live there isn't an organized movement AND successful voting block. It's hard for me to swallow, "the more people that vote the better." when there are 11 million illegal potential voters. I do believe it's a wonderful right that makes this country different and great but it also should be treated as a precious right. (damn I'm rambling sorry)

I agree that it's a precious right, which is why I don't want to see legal voters disenfranchised.

I have not had experiences like yours, and maybe there are illegal aliens voting. I have no idea. They are undocumented, so if they somehow get registered to vote (not sure how that would happen), there is no way to know how many or how few they are. If I am naive about it, it's because there is truly no record.

Conversely, there is a clear and present record of Republican legislators doing everything they can - from gerrymandering to creating and pushing new voter ID laws - to make it more difficult for poor, mostly black, people to vote. I would suggest that any one who denies this is either naive or willfully ignorant about it.

[KevinG]

Not to be condescending or rude but I believe it's naive to believe that these people are apolitical or that afraid of being deported. We've all voted and and I've never seen ICE agents at a polling station. Why wouldn't an illegal go vote for a president who endorses further funding of illegal aliens and their children? Hell they mingle in society as if they were citizens. I see it all the time. My cousin owns multiple restaurants and having family that farms, interacting with illegals are a common occurrence. My wife had an automobile accident with 2 illegal women. The police were called to do the report and when we asked if the ladies would have consequences for being here illegally the officer said its a low priority for the police department. One of my cousins employees got arested and was deported....he was back at his job in less than 3 weeks! These are obviously things I've seen and caused me to think the way I do. I just find it difficult to believe that in the areas and neighborhoods that illegals live there isn't an organized movement AND successful voting block. It's hard for me to swallow, "the more people that vote the better." when there are 11 million illegal potential voters. I do believe it's a wonderful right that makes this country different and great but it also should be treated as a precious right. (damn I'm rambling sorry)

 

Here is an interesting article that came out after the 2012 election on non documented workers and voting:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/undocumented-immigrants-voted-2012/story?id=18357147

 

From a presidential stand point even if the non documented residents are voting they aren't really affecting the outcome of the race.  And there are no indication (or credible source) that can show where non documented residents vote. 

 

Just as a side note an immigrant who is here legally is able to get a driver's license and presumably use that driver's license to vote.  So if you are worried about non-citzens voting I am not too sure voter id is the way to go.  

 

For those that support these new voter laws ask yourself, "is voter fraud such a problem that we have to potentially disenfranchise thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) to stop it?"  

[lost highway]

 Why wouldn't an illegal go vote for a president who endorses further funding of illegal aliens and their children?

 

Who is "funding" illegal immigrants?  They get here hidden in the back of trucks, and by crossing the desert on their own two feet.

[Atticus]

Who is "funding" illegal immigrants?  

 

anyone who pays federal income tax

[lost highway]

How?  There's no "Illegal Immigrant relief fund".  Many illegals pay social security even though they'll never get it.  I mean come on, do we need to go through the tired debate that inevitably concludes with the fact that economists have proven that there is a net economic benefit from immigrants in the U.S.?

[Guest Jules]

Who is "funding" illegal immigrants?  They get here hidden in the back of trucks, and by crossing the desert on their own two feet.

 

Not always.  Some come on legal visitor visas and never leave.

[Winston Legthigh]

Immigrant Song rules.

[uncool2pillow]

They benefit from services like public education. We fund them.

[lost highway]

Ok, so we're worried that illegal immigrants are going to sneak into the voting polls, mainly to vote for candidates who want to "fund" them (i.e. allow public education to continue to exist).

 

This doesn't begin to account for sales and property taxes that immigrants are contributing to, thereby helping "fund" themselves.

[Atticus]

it's kind of silly to fight vehemently for every citizen's access to vote and then be cavalier about preventing people from voting who have no right to vote. 

[uncool2pillow]

Ok, so we're worried that illegal immigrants are going to sneak into the voting polls, mainly to vote for candidates who want to "fund" them (i.e. allow public education to continue to exist).

 

This doesn't begin to account for sales and property taxes that immigrants are contributing to, thereby helping "fund" themselves.

This is true. I also wonder how many have jobs for which FICA and income taxes are withheld, but they don't file because they're illegal. Therefore, as citizens, they'd be due refunds. I'm sure there's some data on this. But why bother with data when we have Steve King.

[Tweedling]

it's kind of silly to fight vehemently for every citizen's access to vote and then be cavalier about preventing people from voting who have no right to vote. 

Damn it! you put what I was thinking all in one sentence. Dick

[Tweedling]

I'm pretty sure we fund them with education, health care and food stamps. Not bad for someone breaking the law to be here.

[lost highway]

I'm pretty sure we fund them with food stamps.

 

That's patently false.  An illegal immigrant is not eligible for food stamps.  The only kind of health care they get is the kind where you go to the emergency room and when you can't pay the send you bills and eventually to collections.  Otherwise many pay out-of-pocket for urgent care.

[KevinG]

it's kind of silly to fight vehemently for every citizen's access to vote and then be cavalier about preventing people from voting who have no right to vote.

It is kinda of silly to fight vehemently for the integrity of the vote and then be so cavalier about preventing people voting who have every right to vote.

[ih8music]

it's kind of silly to fight vehemently for every citizen's access to vote and then be cavalier about preventing people from voting who have no right to vote. 

 

But to a point that was made earlier, there's no evidence that illegals are voting in any great numbers or have any meaningful effect on elections.  If there is evidence of that happening, then by all means let's see what measures can be put into place to prevent that... but the trick will be how to do that without unfairly impacting the rights of legal voters.  

 

I think the old adage re: our legal system applies here:  I'd rather have 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man be wrongly convicted

[Guest Jules]

That's patently false.  An illegal immigrant is not eligible for food stamps.  The only kind of health care they get is the kind where you go to the emergency room and when you can't pay the send you bills and eventually to collections.  Otherwise many pay out-of-pocket for urgent care.

 

True. We need these people to work. Plain and simple. Americans don't want many of these jobs.

 

And the ones that do want them typically don't work as hard. 

[lost highway]

The whole argument goes in a circle until it lands back to: "so what is the real motivation to restrict voting in new ways?".  It's kind of an occam's razor thing.  Clearly someone is benefiting politically, and they have an explosive red-herring to throw out there to distract us.  The same one that was just hashed out: immigration policy.  We get to argue until we're red int the face about our understanding of illegal immigrants while some fat cat cleans up in the polls because they've tipped the balance towards wealthy white voters.

 We need these people to work. Plain and simple. Americans don't want many of these jobs.

And the ones that do want them typically don't work as hard. 

 

I have seen that first hand.

[Tweedling]

That's patently false.  An illegal immigrant is not eligible for food stamps.  The only kind of health care they get is the kind where you go to the emergency room and when you can't pay the send you bills and eventually to collections.  Otherwise many pay out-of-pocket for urgent care.

I work in a hospital. The amount of care given to illegal immigrants is far beyond "urgent care". After care is given bills are not paid....in or out of pocket. a fact.

 

I've been told that illegals can get food stamps. The Department of Agriculture seems to agree.http://www.amren.com/news/2013/04/usda-to-mexico-illegal-immigrants-can-have-food-stamps/

[uncool2pillow]

I think the best solution is to allow more legal immigration.  Laws, fences, and walls aren't going to stop them, and like Jules said, there are some jobs that people who were born here don't seem to want.

[Atticus]

It is kinda of silly to fight vehemently for the integrity of the vote and then be so cavalier about preventing people voting who have every right to vote.

Who's doing that?

[uncool2pillow]

If all the jobs these people -- and other legal citizens who do work outside the sphere of our laws -- suddenly got the wages, benefits, and working conditions demanded by our laws, the people who bitch about illegal immigrants would be bitching about inflation.