General Political Thread

[Hixter]

I still haven't figured out why the lives of children of Newtown seem to register as more valuable than an equally defenseless adult victim of any other rampage.

Politicians love to enact laws 'for the children.'

 

If someone who is, like Hixter, a little paranoiac but wants to own half a dozen guns, fine and dandy. I have no problem with that. I think it's a little fetishistic and weird

Was that really necessary?

[IRememberDBoon]

I like the right wing lie about how all the shootings happened in "gun free zones"

what a pantload

 

[Hixter]

I like the right wing lie about how all the shootings happened in "gun free zones"

Were the sailors and civilian employees at the Naval Shipyard allowed to carry guns on the premises? 

Were the teachers, students and administrators at Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech and Columbine allowed to carry guns on campus?

Were the patrons at the Aurora theater allowed to carry guns?

 

The answer is no. Only police officers and security personnel were allowed to be armed.

[Guest Don Draper]

The sentiment still makes me uncomfortable

The sentiment I was expressing was bemusement at the fact that people, even in the same region as the other incident, are forgetting that this has happened before. That the idea of the Angry White Male is so seared into our brains and our entertainment culture that there's barely so much as déjà vu just a few years later.

 

So. Kind of a race relations thing. I'm sorry that unsettles you.

[Winston Legthigh]

And in other news...

 

McCain to his constituents: against same-sex marriage.

McCain to Russians (via Pravda.ru op-ed piece): [Your leaders] "write laws to codify bigotry against people whose sexual orientation they condemn."

[Guest Don Draper]

And in other news...

 

McCain to his constituents: against same-sex marriage.

McCain to Russians (via Pravda.ru op-ed piece): [Your leaders] "write laws to codify bigotry against people whose sexual orientation they condemn."

Comparing Russia's laws to gay marriage is like comparing a mother who starves her kids to a mother who doesn't give her kids Ho-Ho's after lunch.

[Hixter]

And so it begins:

 

WASHINGTON — The ambitious U.S.-Russian deal to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons, hailed as a diplomatic breakthrough just days ago, hit its first delay Wednesday with indications that the Syrian government will not submit an inventory of its toxic stockpiles and facilities to international inspectors by this weekend's deadline.

 

The State Department signaled that it would not insist that Syrian President Bashar Assad produce the list Saturday, the end of a seven-day period spelled out in the framework deal that Washington and Moscow announced last weekend in Geneva.

 

Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said Wednesday that "our goal is to see forward momentum" by Saturday, not the full list. "We've never said it was a hard and fast deadline."

 

It wasn't clear whether Syrian officials needed more time to complete a formal declaration of their chemical arms, or whether the disarmament deal itself was in trouble.

 

 Secretary of State John F. Kerry had described the date as the first of several "specific timelines" that would indicate whether Syria is committed to the deal that he and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had worked out.

 

"We agreed that Syria must submit within a week — not in 30 days, but in one week — a comprehensive listing," Kerry said Saturday. He said the U.S. would allow "no games, no room for avoidance, or anything less than full compliance."

[Winston Legthigh]

Comparing Russia's laws to gay marriage is like comparing a mother who starves her kids to a mother who doesn't give her kids Ho-Ho's after lunch.

A mother who doesn't give her kids hohos after lunch is doing a good job. Is that your point?

[Atticus]

In all fairness to Syria, it's been hard to get a lot done with Breaking Bad winding down.

[Doug C]

I was raised with guns. I shot them throughout childhood. Well, bb guns, pellet guns, shot guns, .22s and 30.06 rifles. I never fired the little Beretta my dad kept under his side of the bed. Target shooting and quail/dove/squirrel hunting. My dad had stopped going on major hunting trips with my uncles after we moved to Florida. I was 6 when we moved so no elk hunts, etc. for me.

 

That said, I haven't fired a gun in about 35 years. I don't own any guns and have no desire to do so.

 

Gun ownership is such a part of our culture that no tragedy, no matter how horrific, will lead to any radical law changes of the Australia variety. Unlike other countries, many, if not most, gun owners would not easily give up their guns. It would be a true "gun nut's" wet dream (granted most gun owners are not stereotypical nutters). Violence would ensue. Even many non-gun owners grasp that guns are a part of our cultural fabric and would be against a "guns are illegal for everyone" law/2nd Amendment interpretation. It will never happen.

 

I don't know what the answer is. Education? Public relations? Shaming? Those worked to decrease drunk driving and smoking but guns? Trying to change gun culture, thereby allowing the altering of gun laws, would be akin to trying to alter carnivorous culture to eventually make meat-eating illegal. It's beyond pie-in-the-sky. I don't think that I am being a defeatist, simply a realist. America is just different when it comes to guns than many other nations.The best we can do is enforce the laws we have and maybe tweak a few of them to tighten some areas up.

[Atticus]

As a nation, we're simply too fat to give up our guns.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

 

Was that really necessary?

 

I apologize if you feel insulted by my opinion. Sincerely. But it does seem that way to me, and several others here. I'm not calling you a gun nut or some other name.

And you, understandably, probably feel that people at my end of the spectrum are naive, careless, tempting fate, or some other variation. Honestly, I don't know what. And that's ok. But yeah, that's the way I feel.

 

I am admittedly ignorant about guns, and have little desire to learn more about them than I know. In fact, I have learned much more than I am interested in knowing from this thread alone. I am also baffled by the idea that people have guns for self-defense against intruders. I guess if you have a big place, and great hearing, and will have plenty of time to find the gun, get the safety off, and then confront the intruder - weapons pointed at each other, like in a movie - it could work out. Somehow, I don't see this scenario as being a common one, but I guess it beats dying. If someone attacked me in my home, they could rob me, but they would have to kill me before I let them tie me up. I'm only afraid of torture and pain, not death.

[Hixter]

I don't know what the answer is. Education? Public relations? Shaming?

If we're talking about mass killings, the only hope is for better mental health screening. If it ever becomes a reality, I suspect that a lot of anti-gun people will be outraged when they find out that their use of antidepressants is in a government database that is used for more than just screening gun buyers. Then we'll just have to cross our fingers that Mr. Voices-in-my-head doesn't resort to samurai swords, explosives or a monster truck.

 

As far as the majority of gun crimes, nothing will work until the segment of our society that glamorizes the gangsta lifestyle has a change of heart. Maybe a concerted effort by musicians, athletes, politicians and church leaders could make a difference.

[Doug C]

I agree with the above, Hixter. Mental health care, health care in general, is poor in America. I speak from personal experience. Especially if you have no money, it can be incrdibly difficult to get the help you need. The irony is that for someone with a mental illness, the frustration that comes from jumping through all of the hoops to access what's available, can be too much. Especially if all of the proper effort fails.

 

"As far as the majority of gun crimes, nothing will work until the segment of our society that glamorizes the gangsta lifestyle has a change of heart. Maybe a concerted effort by musicians, athletes, politicians and church leaders could make a difference."

 

I haven't read all of the research, but I agree that it has to play some role in it all. Of course you could bring economic opportunity into that equation also but I'm with ya.

 

[Hixter]

I'm not calling you a gun nut or some other name.

Paranoiac, fetishist, weird ... those aren't exactly polite descriptions to throw out while having a discussion.

 

And you, understandably, probably feel that people at my end of the spectrum are naive, careless, tempting fate, or some other variation. 

No, you're just a person with a different opinion than my own. We should be able to have a discussion without resorting to throwing derogatory personal remarks at each other.

 

I guess if you have a big place, and great hearing, and will have plenty of time to find the gun, get the safety off, and then confront the intruder - weapons pointed at each other, like in a movie - it could work out. 

It takes about 5 or 10 seconds after hearing the sound of breaking glass to grab a firearm, ready it and take up a defensive position. The occupant has the advantage of knowing the layout of the home, while the intruder is going to spend a few minutes trying to locate the valuables. There's unlikely to be a face-to-face gun battle, but you're right -- it's better than dying.

 

Somehow, I don't see this scenario as being a common one

Firearms are used in self defense many times every day. After Sandy Hook, the president asked the CDC to study self-defensive gun use. Among its findings:

 

"consistently lower injury rates among gun using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

 

“almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year."

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Paranoiac, fetishist, weird ... those aren't exactly polite descriptions to throw out while having a discussion.

 

The amount of time and energy you have spent in researching all this gun stuff, and your ownership of a half dozen guns (and heavy participation in other parts of this thread about guns), leads me to believe you are a little paranoid about armed intruders. Sounds like you live in a very suburban, and highly-armed, area, where the likelihood of you ever having to face an armed intruder is very slim. I understand that we live in alternate universes. If you feel I am weird too, for thinking otherwise, you can tell me. I won't take it as an insult. I like being weird.

 

I have a good buddy who has a gun. I think he's a little paranoid for buying one. Six? In your neck of the woods, that's probably par, or maybe below. Where I come from, that is a fetish at minimum. The fact that they all have various functions is even more bizarre to me. I can't relate to it in any way.

 

Don't take all this stuff too much to heart. Remember, viachicago is pretty much liberal-land, with a few notable exceptions. You're probably incredibly normal except for the gun thing.

As a nation, we're simply too fat to give up our guns.

[Dick Ctionary]

Fetish noun\ˈfe-tish also ˈfē-\

1 a : an object (as a small stone carving of an animal) believed to have magical power to protect or aid its owner; broadly : a material object regarded with superstitious or extravagant trust or reverence

b : an object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion : prepossession

c : an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression

2 : a rite or cult of fetish worshipers

3 : fixation

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Fetish noun\ˈfe-tish also ˈfē-\

 

1 a : an object (as a small stone carving of an animal) believed to have magical power to protect or aid its owner; broadly : a material object regarded with superstitious or extravagant trust or reverence

 

b : an object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion : prepossession

 

c : an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression

 

2 : a rite or cult of fetish worshipers

 

3 : fixation

Good point. I only meant it in the sense of #1b or #3. No references to sexual gratification were implied.

[Hixter]

The amount of time and energy you have spent in researching all this gun stuff, and your ownership of a half dozen guns (and heavy participation in other parts of this thread about guns), leads me to believe you are a little paranoid about armed intruders.

I've never had a break-in and I don't expect I ever will. One man's paranoia is another ex-Boy Scout's 'be prepared.'

 

I have a good buddy who has a gun. I think he's a little paranoid for buying one. Six? In your neck of the woods, that's probably par, or maybe below. Where I come from, that is a fetish at minimum. 

It's definitely way below par for this part of Texas, but I, too, lived in Florida for nearly 30 years and 6 firearms wouldn't have raised an eyebrow -- even among my liberal, nouveau-hippy professor friends.

 

The fact that they all have various functions is even more bizarre to me. I can't relate to it in any way.

I've never played a round of golf in my life, but it's not difficult for me to understand that a golfer needs more than one club in his bag. I don't play guitar or read music, but I can understand why Jeff Tweedy needs an acoustic guitar for certain songs and an electric guitar for others.

 

You're probably incredibly normal except for the gun thing.

And a backhanded compliment to close it out.   

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I've never played a round of golf in my life, but it's not difficult for me to understand that a golfer needs more than one club in his bag. I don't play guitar or read music, but I can understand why Jeff Tweedy needs an acoustic guitar for certain songs and an electric guitar for others.

 

And a backhanded compliment to close it out.

Did you just compare guns to golf clubs?

I gotta take back my normal comment. Sorry.

[Guest Don Draper]

A mother who doesn't give her kids hohos after lunch is doing a good job. Is that your point?

There's a difference between starving a kid and denying your kid something extra. There's a difference between making it illegal to be gay and not being in support of (which, note, is different than banning) gay marriage.

Did you just compare guns to golf clubs?

I gotta take back my normal comment. Sorry.

 I golf occasionally, and I've played several rounds where a shotgun would have been more accurate than a fairway wood.

[IRememberDBoon]

crank up the WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMBULANCE!


attack attack attack and when someone hits back CRY

 

[Atticus]

Who's crying in here?

[Winston Legthigh]

There's a difference between starving a kid and denying your kid something extra. There's a difference between making it illegal to be gay and not being in support of (which, note, is different than banning) gay marriage.

 

 

My point is that either you support equal rights or you don't. Your point is that Russia's laws are worse than the US's. I agree. 

[JUDE]

crank up the WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMBULANCE!

 

 

attack attack attack and when someone hits back CRY