ZenLunatic

Any economy more complicated than the Cro-Magnons runs on borrowed money. The trick is not lending too much money to people who can't pay it back ever. They can take a long time to pay it back (the longer, the better for the lender, actually) but they have to pay it back for the system to work properly.

I agree. And America is in the worst position because we are the biggest consumer and debtor. We dont have any plans of paying back our money, sooner or later we will get screwed for it.

Let's say you buy a house for $100 by putting $10 down, and borrowing $90.

Let's say that five years later you sell the house for $150, and pay the bank back their $90.

Did you not just increase your own wealth on borrowed money?

Of course you can grow wealth (and an economy) on borrowed money. I dont even understand what you are arguing half the time.

That appreciation is not real. It is based unsubstainable low interest rates in an inflationatory economy that keeps alive by borrowing and not actually making money. Thats what you dont get. The overblown equity value you state is based on borrowed money which isnt real. The bubbles are not real money making.

I don't see a contradiction at all. It's not like he's planning on making this stimulus a continuous thing. The purpose it to create jobs and stabilize the markets. Once that happens theoretically more people should be in a position to spend money again and things should improve. It's not perfect, but my guess is that it will help (certainly more than doing nothing at all). As things turn around then it's his responsibility (as well as everyone else's) not to just spend like maniacs and instead try and reduce the debt burden in general. That's where the responsibility part really comes into play. For now, I don't see any contradiction between saying "here's a lot of money to boost the economy" and "spend responsibly."

I missed 9 pages of talking but want to respond to this if anyone hasnt.

You cant grow the economy on borrowed money. So we borrow billions to create jobs and this will give people money and jobs, but all that money is borrowed and needs to be paid back. If that money is used to build infrastructure and buy cars and homes that prop up bad companies and support people that cant afford their bad mortgages, how do we pay back the money????? Where do we actually make the money??? Where are the goods and services that produces the money??? We are just passing around borrowed money to prop up our horrible businesses and maintain our fake way of life.

We need to consume less as a country. We need to produce goods and services we can export to other countries to make money.

Consider your house an expense and not as an investment. Your house may very lose value in the coming years. I know market is low now but we havent hit bottom. And when we do, dont expect the housing market to rebound to prices we've seen before.

Housing prices most likely will find a place and stay steady and increase or decrease with inflation or deflation. Housing equity rising is no longer or will it ever be what it used to. Pay for a home you like to live in and live in it, dont expect it to make you money.

He's going to address the nation tonight. Probably a speech very much like what he gave yesterday. It's good, I think the general America needs to hear it.

I think its interesting that he just passed the gigantic stimulis and now he talks about how we have to "pay as you go" and be responsible. Its kind of contradicting. With the $350 billion left over from the first one and now near $800 billion more from this one, he is set with well over a trillion borrowed money to spend in his term. It's kind of like he did this great stimulis to please a bunch of people politically and now he wants to do whats right.

Not sure how what he is going regarding the stimulus package and the helping out subprime loans is the same old thing. The bank bailouts is another issue, but the minute the word "nationalize" went out in relation to the banking issue, the stock market tanked. Any kind of additional oversight than Bush's TARP will be better. Strangely stocks keep tanking anyway because any talk of doing anything other than throwing bucketfuls of money at the corporations is met with sceptism by Wall Street.

 

Yea, agreed, the guy can actually talk and MAKE SENSE. And he knows how to THINK. All of this, while not perfect, is way better than than Bush or alternately McCain.

 

LouieB

Agree he is much better than Bush and McCain. I am talking about the same old as in blowing our Debts out of the galaxy. We as a nation have always borrowed and printed money to solve all our problems. This is basically just pushing all our problems into the future and never really dealing with it. To actually deal with our real problem, we cant borrow anymore and we cant print more money. We have to make better with what we now have and make.

Marketing, they were hit with a near unanimous wall of approval fromthe press with very little opposition. Just as Obam's lowered Republican approval ratings are as much a function of marketing as anything else. The press still sells everything as if it deserves equal time when not all ideas or thoughts do deserve it, especially not the failed notions of the past eight years.

A better word is propaganda. Politics. They use fear to sell an idea. It was a method that Bush used to sell war. Now Obama is using it to pass gigantic stimulis and bailouts.

Most people in America supported the Iraq war before we found out it was a complete waste.

Wanna start with the fact I voted for Obama. I have had many issues with what he has done thus far. I still have problems with alot of his plans he is laying out right now from all the bailouts and stimulis. Seems like he is doing the same old routine when he ran on change.

This speech he gave today finally gave me some hope he may start to change into what we actually need. Dont know what will happen, but if he sticks to his word, he will have to make some tough choices that he hasnt made so far. My hope is he can make them and stop the madness that is happening right now. We need someone to clean house. Lets see some actual change Obama.

Watch this video clip:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1043368543

This pretty good. It basically explains the stimulus, and how pointless it really is:

 

Stimulus Payment Info.

 

"This year, taxpayers will receive an Economic Stimulus Payment. This is a very exciting new program that I will explain using the Q and A format:

 

Q. What is an Economic Stimulus Payment?

A. It is money that the federal government will send to taxpayers.

 

Q. Where will the government get this money?

A. From taxpayers.

 

Q. So the government is giving me back my own money?

A. Only a smidgen.

 

Q. What is the purpose of this payment?

A. The plan is that you will use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.

 

Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?

A. Shut up.

 

Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the US economy by spending your stimulus check wisely:

 

If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China .

If you spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.

If you purchase a computer it will go to India .

If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to Mexico , Honduras , and Guatemala (unless you buy organic).

If you buy a car it will go to Japan .

If you purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan .

 

And none of it will help the American economy.

 

We need to keep that money here in America . You can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales, going to a baseball game, or spend it on prostitutes, beer and wine (domestic ONLY), or tattoos, since those are the only businesses still in the US

This is pretty good but you have to also mention how the money from the stimilus will benefit the irresponsible people the most, thus encouraging this behavior. Let's keep bailing the bad business out! In America, we dont work for money, we just print it.

Mortgage Plan just plain bad.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29331920

link here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090220/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_stock

So who now still thinks we should bail them out?

Who also thinks it was a good use of money with the first billions? What a waste of our money.

GM, you suck! Makes you appreciate Ford alot more.

"To be sure, Blu-ray is growing -- up 250 percent since 2007 -- but it still represents less than 3.5 percent of the overall market. Analysts now wonder whether Blu-ray will be able to pick up steam fast enough -- or if the future has already been handed over to online downloading and streaming alternatives. With companies like Netflix rushing into streaming as quickly as possible, that certainly seems like a strong possibility."[/i]

People still will want some kind of physical media to have and carry around. What would you do if you want to go somewhere and want to take a movie, game, or any data with you? You cant have everything on the internet and have it downloaded at instant speeds.

Even in future sci-fi shows, they use some kind of memory format that gets carried around. Things will never be solely on the internet.

If anything is going to replace the blu-ray, its memory chips. The technology isnt there yet for the memory chip to replace the disc format, and in the meantime, blu-rays will slowly gain marketshare. On-line streaming/downloads will be big but people still will want some kind of instant physical media.

I got shut out on tickets to this.

I did just buy the 5 poster set though. It is on sale at wilcoworld. only about $64 for the whole set delivered. Plan to get them framed somehow.

I'd enjoy watching Griffey moving up the alltime HR count. Go griffey!

I don't think its racist. I think its controversial and that sells.

How the hell does Dash 7 represent AM as a whole?

Dash 7 maybe the Roland Burris of Alpha Monkey.

Kinda like a congressperson. That song would represent the other songs when it goes to Washington.

hehe

Natural progression of technology is HD and everything is moving that way. Blu-ray is the HD player of choice. The market and technology is set on it. Prices will come down and it will eventually take over. Doesnt matter how long it takes, its the direction its headed.

The future of media after blu-ray will be in the form of memory chips.

Amsterdam, Netherlands.

Where you can the best weed from a menu at a bar and even fresh psychodelic shrooms at your local drug store. Where prositutes are legal. All this causing a culture unlike any you have felt. Not to mention the beautiful architecture with canals running through the whole city and wonderful resturants and nightlife. I felt like I was living in a dream world when I was there.

I'm actually a big Borat fan. I liked the movie, but his HBO stuff was the best.

So, I guess it's not funnier than Borat?

You cant beat fat naked guy wrestling.

This better be like a million times funnier than Borat when it comes out.

Its happening right now. There's nothing to wait for.

You may be right. Are you saying you think Rodgers would have left if they brought back Favre? My opinion gets clouded by my love of the guy. I didn't think Rodgers did a very good job this season, in fact I thought what the team lacked the most was a solid leader.

 

I see a few posts of hatred for Favre. He didn't play on the Yankees! Jeez!

Him leaving was a possibility, but more so, he wouldnt have gotten that year of experience and team building going into this next season.

Basically Favre playing would most likely have put Green Bay in a worse position for the sake of him playing another year. I guess it depends if you think it that wouldve been worth it. As a non-Favre fan, I say its not worth it. But I can see how big Favre fans wouldnt care about it.

If it's real, I feel bad for him, because he's already dealt with some f-ed up things in his life, and obviously it would be good if he was dealing with those things in a healthy way.

 

And if it's real, I also feel bad for Casey Affleck, and JP's manager or whoever else should be helping him deal with this situation rather than booking him on talk shows, and David Letterman and whoever on his staff let him go on in that condition, because all of those people are probably going to hell.

 

I'm guessing if it was real, at least one of those people would have stepped up and made some effort to contain the situation by now. So that's kind of making me think that it's not real.

I think your logic is right.