Happy Labor Day

[Reni]

I can speak no more about the expression - I have been asked kindly by my lovely spouse to refrain from further comment.

[EL the Famous]

I know you didn't bring it up, but I'm really not interested in talking about my personal financial situation any more than I'm interested in talking about yours. Anecdotes are fine, but they should be placed in context.

 

You're right, I didn't bring it up and I don't see how anything I posted was out of context. That said, i'll kindly bow out of this thread and leave it alone.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I learned a long time ago to make my own pie vs. wait for someone to give me some though.

This is a total straw-man. No one's suggesting that people should stop working or trying to succeed. Is it somehow lazy to ask about systemic problems?

 

As an aside, it seems a bit out of whack to me that our society would encourage what I assume to be one of the country's best and brightest to sleep in his office so that he can sell more cell phones. The upshot is that he helps produce jobs for people and makes a product that people find enjoyable and useful. His family, in one way or another, likely bares the brunt, however.

[deepseacatfish]

I'm not so much bothered by the fact that there are some ridiculously wealthy dudes out there. What bothers me is that basic things like health care are getting more expensive, and therefore harder to obtain for middle and lower class people. Rising gas prices are another thing that's obviously going to hit the less-well-off harder. But in a country that has so much prosperity, it's really kind of a dissapointment that wages aren't keeping up with inflation these days...and especially that minimum wage hasn't changed in a decade.

 

I'm all for a little more distribution of wealth, or maybe...gasp...a health care system that wouldn't bankrupt people needing treatment (I know someone who had this happen). Things are far from desperate in this country, but I think it's about time people started re-examining these issues seriously again.

 

Just my two cents.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

You're right, I didn't bring it up and I don't see how anything I posted was out of context. That said, i'll kindly bow out of this thread and leave it alone.

I didn't say anything you brought up was out of context, however, I think it's kind of silly and dodging the issue to say that people worried about the country's workers (not necessarily, although themselves likely included) should just try to be an executive. Warren Buffet has written about similar questions. Should he just try to be an executive?

“If class warfare is being waged in America,” he wrote, “my class is clearly winning.”-WB

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/20/news/buffett_tax/

"government can't deliver a free lunch to the country as a whole. It can, however, determine who pays for lunch. And last week the Senate handed the bill to the wrong party."

[Reni]

yay for living in a country where dogs have their own clothing lines and where six children burned to death over the weekend in their apartment from a fire started by candles (being used because their family couldn't afford electricity).

 

Something is out of whack, doncha think??

[froggie]

happy labour day, even though it's in march down here on the arse end of the world!

[anodyne]

this is the richest country in the world, and it's also the most stratified economically. our priorities are out of whack to the point where our greed has hamstringed our longview. we've sacrificed our jobs to oursourcing to increase the bottom line return for investors. meanwhile, those displaced workers end up in lower wage jobs without the purchasing power of their old (usually unionized) jobs. these workers cannot buy expensive durable goods and cause companies to faulter.

 

general motors saw the future when they started making cars in mexico at poverty wages while still selling them for the same price as when they were made with detroit living wages. gm was making record profits under the new NAFTA plan. now, people can't afford gm cars on wal-mart wages and gm is a hair away from bankruptcy.

 

short-sighted greed of the wealthy elite have made themselves richer and crippled our country. it's gotten to the point where college is completely unafordable in many states (ohio residents get cheaper tuition at any of the border states than staying in-state and getting the in-state discount). welcome to 1877.

[jenbobblehead]

something tells me that this isn't the new random thread.

[embiggen]

someone should start one then.

[EL the Famous]

yay for living in a country where dogs have their own clothing lines and where six children burned to death over the weekend in their apartment from a fire started by candles (being used because their family couldn't afford electricity).

 

Something is out of whack, doncha think??

 

How many people died during the great depression? Of course things are out of whack, when aren't they? To act like there no options however and we're at some sort of end-days is just being defeatist. I'm sorry.

 

As far as outsourcing goes, if we didn't start manufacturing some things abroad...we'd be out of business due to our asian competitors undercutting us on costs. 0

[EL the Famous]

My last post was typed w/ baby in my arms...sorry for being disjointed.

 

Look, I don't think it's lazy to complain per say or want some sort of reform...I was being a touch sarcastic w/ the executive comment...but I do think working your ass off and staying postive is a legitimate answer to the question of 'what can we do?' It's part of the answer at least and I don't find a lot of people offering that up as part of the solution at least.

 

That CEO does that because he wants to and does it when he has to...he wants the company to succeed and thank god for that. He has a hard work ethic, but doesn't sacrifice family-time either...he works hard at both. Works. Hard. I've been through massive layoffs and i'd rather see us in a good place.

[Gobias Industries]

i think its sad and scary. when my parents were poor and young they saved up for a down payment on a house in a year and were fine. kris and i work good jobs and i cant imagine even being able to do that in 5 years. it seems like the things that were atainable even 10 or 20 years ago are so much harder for families today. the country is very obviously slipping... what is there to do?

 

"goddamn inflation!"

 

haha just kidding.

 

work a day

rest a day

have a happy labor day!

[anodyne]

As far as outsourcing goes, if we didn't start manufacturing some things abroad...we'd be out of business due to our asian competitors undercutting us on costs. 0

 

 

this simply does not make sense. yes, foreign labor costs are lower, and our companies did take advantage of that. however, they did not pass those lower costs to the consumers as lower prices -- they kept them as profit margin. meanwhile, the formerly well-paid laborers could not afford the goods they once produced.

 

undercutting costs increases profit margins, which in a truly competitive environment will always be small as companies sacrifice profits for marketshare. american businesses outsourcing their production costs did not do that, instead focusing on short term returns. now they're folding.

 

i suppose it's a matter of time until the government bails out GM the way they did chrysler.

[cryptique]

This is an interesting article, somewhat related to this thread.

[EL the Famous]

this simply does not make sense. yes, foreign labor costs are lower, and our companies did take advantage of that. however, they did not pass those lower costs to the consumers as lower prices -- they kept them as profit margin. meanwhile, the formerly well-paid laborers could not afford the goods they once produced.

 

undercutting costs increases profit margins, which in a truly competitive environment will always be small as companies sacrifice profits for marketshare. american businesses outsourcing their production costs did not do that, instead focusing on short term returns. now they're folding.

 

It makes absolute sense. Our margins have gone to shit quite frankly, a lot in part to asian manufacturers offering our customers product for a lot less cost.

[mountain bed]

I do think working your ass off and staying postive is a legitimate answer to the question of 'what can we do?'

I think realistically that may be all you can do..that & vote people in office who will represent those who are not obscenely wealthy (with interests that are self-absorbed).

The tragic flaw of the Capitalist system seems to be that it plays right into the hands of the deadly sin of greed...a sin that's never too far back in the minds of us all.

[tugmoose]

 

With $400,000,000.00, wouldn't you think he could afford a better rug?

[Gobias Industries]

the easiest answer is: a Maximum Wage. Anything X times above the minimum wage should be taxed 100%.

 

Most would say about 10x to 20x the minimum wage. That way, if rich people want to be richer, they have to pull up the rest of them by raising the minimum wage.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I don't think that's a great solution.

[Gobias Industries]

I don't think that's a great solution.

 

It provides the greatest compromise, which is needed at this moment in time.

[deepseacatfish]

It provides the greatest compromise, which is needed at this moment in time.

I don't know, capping off wages at 10 to 20x the minimum wage is pretty extreme. I wouldn't exactly call it compromise. Anything capping wages is going to be looked at very unfavorably, no matter how it's designed...and would definitely be major incentive for extremely wealthy people to move to other countries.

 

I think it really comes down to increasing the minimum wage, creating a good and affordable health care system in this country, keeping up good social programs, and just watching corporations so that they don't abuse their power.

[Reni]

How many people died during the great depression?

 

Hello New Deal, WPA, etc etc.....

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060904/pl_nm/bush_dc

[embiggen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060904/pl_nm/bush_dc

 

I call bullshit! I pay more taxes than ever and I am far from well off.