jenbobblehead Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 hey, we need all the help we can get......Jen, got an appropriate voodoo doll?? i could try resurrecting the one we used in 2004--the one i was run over by a car getting 2 years ago this past weekend. It is still hanging off the TV at the bar... Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 No need to be a prick.Did I offend you're family or something, dude? Stop being an ass. Well, I was in part teasing you for fun (hence the smiley in the post about baseball predictions) and in part continuing my amazement at how you can speak in such absolutes about a game in which nothing is absolute. You seem unable or unwilling to give credit to a team that by all accounts had a pretty darn good season. $100 million payroll or otherwise. And in fairness, by the time they hit the playoffs, the team's payroll was much lower (if you subtract the salaries of the injured players). That being said, I am ready to drop this little sidebar and get back to baseball -- I said it before and I say it again: Tigers in 6. I wish Kenny Rogers was using pine tar back when he was on the Mets in 1999. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 This is great: Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 This is great: Link to post Share on other sites
parisisstale Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wait, is that pine tar on his claw??? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I wish the Cardinals would have shelled after the second so we could make a big deal out of this but they didn't. It's not good to cheat, and he probably was cheating, but the Cardinals complete ineptitude with the baseball bat lost them this game. Juan Encarnacion looked like he was legally blind all night at the plate. Swinging at sounds like a bat on the hunt. I dunno if the fact that he was still dominant the rest of the night is evidence that he didn't docotr it. Woody Paige (an idiot, usually) said he thought that the stuff on his hand may have been used as a distraction so he could rub his hand on his hat for the same purpose without them paying attention. Probably not, but it's possible. Also, most of the pitchers who used to doctor balls were completely aware of the psychological advantage it gave them over a hitter. Eddie Ciccote used to "shine" the ball by rubbing it on his uniform, claiming that it gave his breaking balls extra break. Whether it did or not is arguable, but not really the point. It made hitters think it did. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Putting something on his hand to distract from his hat would be completely retarded. It would create suspicion where there might not be any otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I dunno if the fact that he was still dominant the rest of the night is evidence that he didn't docotr it. Where did I say that it was evidence that he didn't cheat? I said that he probably did cheat, but that it was ultimately the Cardinals' poor hitting that lost them this game. In that regard, his cheating becomes a non-issue. Maybe he cheated for the first inning, maybe for the whole game, maybe for every playoff game he's been a part of. But who cares? Pine tar isn't like throwing an invisibility cloak over the baseball. I won't argue that it probably helps, but it's not like Jason Marquis or somebody equally awful could go out there with pine tar's assistance and throw a no hitter. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I personally don't give a shit as I hate the Cardinals and I believe this kind of thing is and has been a part of the game forever, etc. etc. But, let's not kid ourselves that, regardless of the substance, he knew it was there and it was definitely not dirt (and yes, pine tar is rusty/orange in color, so I'm still leaning towards this). Rogers claiming he didn't know anything was there is beyond comical, and everyone's stories are contradicting each other. Technically speaking (by MLB rules), the umpires should have actually looked at his hand (which they did not), determined it was some kind of foreign substance, and kicked him out of the game. He would also get a 10 game suspension (hence, the remainder of the WS). There are also pictures from each of his other playoff starts showing the exact same substance on his hand, but no one picked up on it at the time. And I have it on good authority that this would help with a grip, especially on a cold night, and especially with breaking balls. Nevertheless, he did wash it off and continued to mow down the Cardinals for 7 more innings, so who knows why he would need anything anyway. Oh, and LaRussa was clearly afraid of offending his buddy Leyland by protesting more vigorously and immediately. I can't help but think he woulg go crazy under different circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
yankhotelfox Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 That's pine tar. No doubt about it. I agree about 97%. I love how he claimed it was a "clump of dirt." What a douchebag! Did he expect us to believe that? Scott Spezio said, last night, something like "whatever it was, he got away with it, good for him." Heh Heh Heh....on the first page of this thread it says "Small-Wang." Heh Heh Heh. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Oh, and LaRussa was clearly afraid of offending his buddy Leyland by protesting more vigorously and immediately. I can't help but think he woulg go crazy under different circumstances. I highly, highly doubt that that was why LaRussa didn't protest more. He wants to win the World Series regardless of how close he is with the opposing manager. That being said, I'm not certain of exactly why he didn't make a bigger stink about it. Although one anonymous Cardinals player was quoted in an article I read this morning saying that every pitcher does it...so perhaps LaRussa didn't want to get everyone talking about this to keep the heat off his own guys? Not extremely likely either, but I think it would make more sense than not wanting to offend Jim Leyland. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I highly, highly doubt that that was why LaRussa didn't protest more. He wants to win the World Series regardless of how close he is with the opposing manager. Not extremely likely either, but I think it would make more sense than not wanting to offend Jim Leyland. OK, but I just think it probably entered his mind a little. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 I sort of like how, when asked for some thoughts about this incident, Todd Jones immediately started talking about how he used pine tar in every single one of his appearances during the two years that he played in Colorado. That guy is such a goober. Link to post Share on other sites
paul137 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 i'm a little bumemd out about the whole poop hand incident. unfortunatly no matter if the tigers win the series or lose, it will be overshadowed by the stinkpalm. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 i'm a little bumemd out about the whole poop hand incident. unfortunatly no matter if the tigers win the series or lose, it will be overshadowed by the stinkpalm.Nah. Maybe if it'd been caught in the eighth inning, not the first. In the end this will just be a footnote. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 I agree with cryptique. This is gonna pass pretty quickly, especially since Major League Baseball has no interest in investigating it further whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I agree that it will be a footnote... for now. You know that if he gets shelled later in the series, that the conspiracy theorists will be back. Anyone remember Mike Scott in 1986??? Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I agree that it will be a footnote... for now. You know that if he gets shelled later in the series, that the conspiracy theorists will be back. Anyone remember Mike Scott in 1986???You mean Mike Scuff? Sure. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Interesting. This guy has no doubt that it was pine tar, and he's in a position to know. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Interesting. This guy has no doubt that it was pine tar, and he's in a position to know. yep, I also know someone "in the business"; this was the good authority I referred to before. "I bet Tony La Russa's pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I'd be surprise if there's a whole staff of guys who don't do it. In fact, I'd say a majority of guys use one of the three -- shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar. They can't like him ratting out the other team when everyone does it. Maybe he had to say something because it's the World Series, it's on TV and he probably has to answer to his owner. "But you'll notice he didn't continue to talk about it, and he instructed his guys not to talk about it. They probably have no interest in catching Rogers because if they do then the umpire is looking at everyone.'' Interesting. I guess I'll buy this more than my previous LaRussa theory. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 That story also reiterates my theory that LaRussa didn't press the issue because he's got guys doing the same thing. Why did the bullpen coach that was interviewed sell out David Wells like that? Anyway, the guy who wrote that article loses a bit of credibility at the end when he asks why Carlos Guillen isn't playing shortstop. Anyone following the Tigers playoff run knows the answer to that. Link to post Share on other sites
oceanman Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 No..................we are more of the steriod type,get it right! Link to post Share on other sites
parisisstale Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 This story is not going away. Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 ESPN (and the other companies) need viewers and website hits. Why would they stop talking about it? Link to post Share on other sites
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