M. (hristine Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 How about those 1980's glamour shots you posted awile back. Are you itching for a thundering and smiting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Are you itching for a thundering and smiting? sounds kinky... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 There are very few innocent teens at this point in time, and they have been trained since tots about 'stranger danger'. Would you say that these are roughly equivalent? A 16-year old boy provided alcohol to, seduced, and tried to have sex with your 16-year old daughter, neice, etc. A 60-year old man provided alcohol to, seduced, and tried to have sex with your 16-year old daughter, neice, etc. Which do you find to be worse, and how much? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Which do you find to be worse, and how much? Is the teen in either situation encouraging it and/or reciprocating? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 that'd be my question too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 If the teen in both situations is equally accepting of the advances, are they then completely morally equivilent situations? Doesn't the power balance between an adult and a teenager count for something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
M. (hristine Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 15, 16, 17, are borderline years for consent in non-peer sexual relationships, (maybe not legally, but ethically in my book.). I still think that the onus of resposibilty is on the adult, regardless of the gender or willingness of the teenager, to walk away from sexual involvement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Doesn't the power balance between an adult and a teenager count for something? In this day/age and as mature as someone who at age 16 is forced to be....probably not as much as it used to. Not a 50/50 morally equivalency, but it's relevant. Frankly, i'd kick both their asses if said avances were unrequited...i'd kick all THREE if she had encouraged it at all, obvious reprecussions be damned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 How about the power balance between a Congressman and an unpaid student volunteer errand-boy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Is the teen in either situation encouraging it and/or reciprocating?that'd be my question too. I'd say that both teens did not accept sex, but may be somewhat flirtatious. i.e. Would you hold a 16-year-old male to the same standard as a 60-year-old male? Explain your answer. As a follow up: Even a twelve-year-old could be fully physically developed, flirting, wearing a bikini, and basically oblivious to the consequences that might follow alcohol consumption with a peer or even a fellow adult. Agree or disagree? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Oh, and by the way, I'm not saying that the kid shouldn't have rebuked the advances if he didn't want them, I'm just saying that, IMO, the other issues involved make the willingness of the kid completely irrelevent. Foley was in a position of power, and he was using it to go after high school students. Regardless, he's resigned and hopefully will soon be getting both the punishment he deserves and the help that he needs. I'm much more concerned about the cover up at this point than I am with the Foley's bad behavior. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I'd say that both teens did not accept sex, but may be somewhat flirtatious. i.e. Would you hold a 16-year-old male to the same standard as a 60-year-old male? Explain your answer. As a follow up: Even a twelve-year-old could be fully physically developed, flirting, wearing a bikini, and basically oblivious to the consequences that might follow alcohol consumption with a peer or even a fellow adult. Agree or disagree? I already explained myself, but while we're asking questions: Would you hold a 16-year-old to the same standard as a 12-year-old? Explain your answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I think the 16 year old kid is really smart. I mean, why else did he keep the logs of the conversations? It's either awesome blackmail of a senator or a nice cash payout from a news agency (ABC). If someone famous person started hitting on me, I'd totally record it all and get rich quick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I think the 16 year old kid is really smart. I mean, why else did he keep the logs of the conversations? It's either awesome blackmail of a senator or a nice cash payout from a news agency (ABC). If someone famous person started hitting on me, I'd totally record it all and get rich quick. You think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Even if that's true...does it matter? Does that change the implications of Foley's behavior one single bit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Even if that's true...does it matter? Does that change the implications of Foley's behavior one single bit? It should and it most definitely should change the symantics of how it's being discussed...that he 'preyed' or 'seduced' or whatever. Does it absolve him of the fact that his actions are the complete opposite of his public/politcal stance/statements? Nope. Does it absolve him of the fact that it's a complete lack of ethics relative to the postion he's in? Nope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I think the 16 year old kid is really smart. I mean, why else did he keep the logs of the conversations? It's either awesome blackmail of a senator or a nice cash payout from a news agency (ABC). If someone famous person started hitting on me, I'd totally record it all and get rich quick. I kept logs of all of my AIM chats (back when I used it), and I think it is automatically enabled. Sometimes I needed to go back and get information that came across through chat. I do the same for google chat through gmail. It's not much different from transcripts of your emails. Anyway- I already explained myself, but while we're asking questions: Would you hold a 16-year-old to the same standard as a 12-year-old? Explain your answer. I only said "Explain your answer" because I was hoping to hear actual reasoning from people (not necessarily you), as opposed to a yes or no answer. I wasn't trying to offend. Obviously, four years makes a difference here. In four years, a twelve-year-old is sixteen. In four years, a sixteen-year-old is 20. I don't think that physical maturity or standards like "Acting like an adult" should be involved here. The key factor is brain maturity, in my opinion. Ability to make ethical decisions. Maybe even the kid engaged in a kind of entrapment. I don't know that entrapping someone or manipulating them is a sign of brain maturity, either. In this case, though, it's beyond simple manipulation or borderline-ethical blackmail on the kid's part. Foley was way out of line, and it sounds like he had this coming. I wouldn't hold a twelve-year-old to the same standards as a sixteen-year-old, and I would not hold a sixteen-year-old to the same standards as a 20-year-old (still not old enough to drink legally). Something about young boys thrills the Representative. If he wanted a gay lover, he could've found one. But that's not it. This is only partly about his homosexuality (which is only an issue because Republicans find it repugnant and he happens to be one). To foley, there is something special about a sixteen-year-old. Think: sweet sixteen. Does sweet sixteen mean welcoming your daughter to the world of casual sex with other adults? Finally, just for the sake of argument. On brain maturity: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/02/06.html For the study, Baird and graduate student Craig Bennett looked at the brains of nineteen 18-year-old Dartmouth students who had moved more than 100 miles to attend college. A control group of 17 older students, ranging in age from 25 to 35, were also studied for comparison. The results indicate that significant changes took place in the brains of these individuals. The changes were localized to regions of the brain known to integrate emotion and cognition. Specifically, these are areas that take information from our current body state and apply it for use in navigating the world. "The brain of an 18-year-old college freshman is still far from resembling the brain of someone in their mid-twenties," says Bennett. "When do we reach adulthood? It might be much later than we traditionally think." El F., though, I gotta add. With all due respect, you still didn't answer my question. Is there a difference between a sixteen-year-old gentleman caller or a 60-year-old gentleman caller, both interested in sex, both moderately tempted by the prey? Or should they be held to the same (perhaps very low) standard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 It should and it most definitely should change the symantics of how it's being discussed...that he 'preyed' or 'seduced' or whatever. This is fair, except that it only really applies to the particular kid that came out with it. But there are some reports that he's been doing similar things with pages for 10 years. I'd imagine that they weren't all so willing, and the fact that there were several and he repeated the behavior over the years sure seems to indicate that he was the aggressor in whatever sort of relationships occurred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 You may be right and I wouldn't be surprsied either, the guy is a creep. but as far as the maturity goes...loper, let me put it to you this way. if you were that same 16-year-old page would you have had the same exchanges, dinners with, etc. that he did? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 No way in hell. But maybe the page is gay too. Either way, he certainly has bad judgment. And so does Foley. My point is this, though: Foley is 60, and the boy is 16. I'd think that one of the two would have better judgment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 My point is this, though: Foley is 60, and the boy is 16. I'd think that one of the two would have better judgment. men...(and pages) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 As far as the whole entrapment thing is concerned. I'm suspicious of it whether it's a private citizen or the police. I think that entrapment is illegal for a reason- it is unethical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viatroy Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I saw an interesting clip from CSPAN of Foley speaking to a graduating class of pages. Hewas very emotional and personal with them, and in hindsight, it was rather odd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 As far as the whole entrapment thing is concerned. I'm suspicious of it whether it's a private citizen or the police. I think that entrapment is illegal for a reason- it is unethical. But that scene where Catherine Zeta Jones moves her butt under lasers was hot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Almost as hot as when she and Brad Pitt are floating in the sex bubble in space, smoking Sector 6 cigarettes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.