Wilco's career's v. The Bands'

[joeshlatbonk]

They've the decision after ten counts...The Band gets the desision after then first few bouts:

Being There v. The Band

[TCP]

Okay; no.

[joeshlatbonk]

Yeah, shit. Long time since I'd posted, then I listened to Sky Blue Sky ($0.00) and drank a bottle ($35.00) of Grand Marnier--(a favorite of Richard Manuel's--eight bottles a day in his later years)--and was listening to Walken--

and got all the fuck out of hand!--

Still pretty fuckin' good, though.

[LouisvilleGreg]

People will be listening to "Big Pink" a hundred years from now and proclaiming its brilliance, Wilco, will by that time be a mere footnote.

[caliber66]

That first post (and thread title) should be saved for posterity. On the subject, I'm not exactly certain what it is, but I like Wilco, like the Band, love Being There, love The Band (album). Richard Manuel is the best rock vocalist ever, and his best vocal performance is on the brown album (Jawbone). I can take or leave Gran Marnier.

[MattZ]

Richard Manuel is the best rock vocalist ever, and his best vocal performance is on the brown album (Whispering Pines).

 

ahem. fixed it.

[caliber66]

I vehemently disagree, but that's a good one, too.

[BobsRevenge]

I think you guys are overrating The Band a little. Wilco is easily one of the most popular bands without radio-play ever and they have a really progressive stance on online music stuff. Don't underestimate their impact. I used to be a huge fan of the band and still enjoy watching The Last Waltz quite a bit, but they've seemed kind of fake and drunk/drugged up to me lately. Watching the Last Waltz you can see it very easily. Richard Manuel is definitely one of the best rock vocalists ever though. Its too bad his voiced started getting messed up after the Brown Album, especially his falsetto.

 

Big Pink is already kind of a footnote. Who talks about it anymore? YHF will probably end up with just as much long term praise.

[quarter23cd]

Big Pink is already kind of a footnote. Who talks about it anymore? YHF will probably end up with just as much long term praise.

Who talks about YHF anymore? Besides us, I mean?

 

At this point it just seems kind of silly to speculate on how history is going to view Wilco. Why does it matter?

 

For the record, I like both bands, tho.

[Spawn's dad]

I voted.

[caliber66]

I think you guys are overrating The Band a little. Wilco is easily one of the most popular bands without radio-play ever and they have a really progressive stance on online music stuff. Don't underestimate their impact. I used to be a huge fan of the band and still enjoy watching The Last Waltz quite a bit, but they've seemed kind of fake and drunk/drugged up to me lately. Watching the Last Waltz you can see it very easily. Richard Manuel is definitely one of the best rock vocalists ever though. Its too bad his voiced started getting messed up after the Brown Album, especially his falsetto.

 

Big Pink is already kind of a footnote. Who talks about it anymore? YHF will probably end up with just as much long term praise.

You're right. Wilco is light years ahead of the Band when it comes to their stance on online music.

 

I think your assessment of the Band is colored by thirty years of hindsight, especially if you're going to base your assessment on their condition during the filming of The Last Waltz. If I was going to choose adjectives to describe the Band, "fake" is probably the last one that would come to mind. Sure they were drugged up at times, but Jeff didn't go to rehab for addiction to green beans.

 

The Band were among the best and most innovative acts of the last half century.

[Virgil Caine]

You're right. Wilco is light years ahead of the Band when it comes to their stance on online music.

 

I think your assessment of the Band is colored by thirty years of hindsight, especially if you're going to base your assessment on their condition during the filming of The Last Waltz. If I was going to choose adjectives to describe the Band, "fake" is probably the last one that would come to mind. Sure they were drugged up at times, but Jeff didn't go to rehab for addiction to green beans.

 

The Band were among the best and most innovative acts of the last half century.

 

 

 

 

Amen to that.

[BobsRevenge]

You're right. Wilco is light years ahead of the Band when it comes to their stance on online music.

 

I think your assessment of the Band is colored by thirty years of hindsight, especially if you're going to base your assessment on their condition during the filming of The Last Waltz. If I was going to choose adjectives to describe the Band, "fake" is probably the last one that would come to mind. Sure they were drugged up at times, but Jeff didn't go to rehab for addiction to green beans.

 

The Band were among the best and most innovative acts of the last half century.

Well, that comment on their stance on online music isn't a direct comparison, it's just an example of something that Wilco has done that is important. The Band wasn't the first to try to bring back that sound. They added a bit more soul and cheese than the others doing it at the time did, but that's it. My Mom was a pretty big music fan when The Band was at their peak and she doesn't remember hearing any of their music yet she remembers Little Feat, and they weren't excessively popular. Garth's organ work is just straight up cheesy a lot of the time too. His sax work does get me off though. I've probably listened to The Band just as much as any of you guys because they were at one time my favorite band (5 years ago now I think) and I own most of their albums.

 

Jeff going to rehab for pain killers is a lot differant than heavy cocaine and alcohol abuse and comparing the two is absurd.

 

Plus from what I've read Robbie Robertson is a huge douchebag that fucked over the rest of the band and knowing that and watching him talk like he does on The Last Waltz can really get on my nerves. And they weren't really that instrumentally talented either (although granted, that isn't really that important, but it is a limiting factor). Garth Hudson was the only one with any sort of exceptional instrumental talent. Levon Helm, Robbie Robertson, Rick Danko, and Richard Manuel really weren't above average when it comes to instrumental talent. Robertson is a great lyracist and they've certainly got some varied vocal talents though.

 

I really don't see them as any better than Wilco on any level including innovation. Plus The Band only released 2 great albums and the rest were just downhill while Wilco's music is still improving (at least imo).

[LouieB]

I think you guys are overrating The Band a little.

Big Pink is already kind of a footnote. Who talks about it anymore? YHF will probably end up with just as much long term praise.

How old are you?? There is a reason even Wilco covers "I Shall Be Released".

 

LouieB

[oatmealblizzard]

'Cause Dylan wrote it?

 

[LouieB]

'Cause Dylan wrote it?

 

Yea, something like that.....let's leave it at that I guess.....

 

LouieB

[BobsRevenge]

How old are you?? There is a reason even Wilco covers "I Shall Be Released".

 

LouieB

20.

 

I Shall Be Released is still one of my favorite songs and I adore the way Richard Manuel sings it. It's an absolutely beautiful song. Lets not forget it was written by Bob Dylan though.

[LouieB]

20.

 

I Shall Be Released is still one of my favorite songs and I adore the way Richard Manuel sings it. It's an absolutely beautiful song. Lets not forget it was written by Bob Dylan though.

You still clearly have some growing up to do....I certainly haven't forgotten that Bob Dylan wrote it, but The Band owns it. Either way you if you are serious you need to put the Band into some sort of perspective.

 

Even Wilco certainly owes something to The Band. And while the first two albums of the Band are masterpieces (a word that gets bandied about here alot), the rest of their catalogue isn't all that shabby including The Last Waltz. Listen to them back Dylan up on "Royal Albert Hall" as well as Planet Waves and After the Flood. They were not shoddy musicans by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The fact remains that even your average band these days can now play circles around some musicians of that era, none the less their influence is massive.

 

LouieB

[caliber66]

Wow. Lots to discuss here. This is fun.

 

Well, that comment on their stance on online music isn't a direct comparison, it's just an example of something that Wilco has done that is important. The Band wasn't the first to try to bring back that sound. They added a bit more soul and cheese than the others doing it at the time did, but that's it. My Mom was a pretty big music fan when The Band was at their peak and she doesn't remember hearing any of their music yet she remembers Little Feat, and they weren't excessively popular.

I'm not sure what Little Feat's popularity in the 70's has to do with the Band's impact today, but that's neither here nor there. A lot more people can tell you what Britney Spears sounds like than can tell you what Wilco sounds like. Does that mean that Wilco are irrelevant?

 

Garth's organ work is just straight up cheesy a lot of the time too. His sax work does get me off though. I've probably listened to The Band just as much as any of you guys because they were at one time my favorite band (5 years ago now I think) and I own most of their albums.

 

Jeff going to rehab for pain killers is a lot differant than heavy cocaine and alcohol abuse and comparing the two is absurd.

Still, it's clear that there's been plenty of substance abuse within Wilco, which is also beside the point. You would be hard pressed to name a musical act from the 70's that did not have a substance abuse problem, but that's irrelevant also. Richard Manuel's drinking problem, Rick Danko's DWI/accident/etc, the fact that the guys used to steal food to get by, that they did piles of cocaine - all have nothing to do with the body of music that they produced during their run. I harp on the song "Jawbone" all the time, and I'm sure everyone's tired of it. The lyrics are nothing special, but they have their clever moments. The structure of the song is weird, lots of tempo changes, kind of jarring. But it MOVES me. All caps, bold, 48 point font. The vocals (especially), the musicianship, Robbie's guitar solo, it raises the hair on the back of my neck, gives me chills, goosebumps, the whole deal. I could give a fuck if they were huffing spray paint between takes. It's quality.

 

Plus from what I've read Robbie Robertson is a huge douchebag that fucked over the rest of the band and knowing that and watching him talk like he does on The Last Waltz can really get on my nerves.

I've heard Jeff Tweedy isn't the easiest guy to be a bandmate with. Jay Bennett comes off as a huge douche in IATTBYH. I'm sure Nels can be a dick. Glenn, probably not. Completely irrelevant to the impact of the music they make on me.

 

And they weren't really that talented either. Garth Hudson was the only one with any sort of exceptional instrumental talent. Levon Helm, Robbie Robertson, Rick Danko, and Richard Manuel really weren't above average when it comes to instrumental talent. Robertson is a great lyracist and they've certainly got some varied vocal talents though.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the instrumental prowess of the individual members of the Band. However, disregarding their own (perceived) shortcomings, sometimes the parts are greater than the whole, sometimes you get more from the whole than it would seem you should from the contribution of the various parts. I'd go with the latter here.

 

I really don't see them as any better than Wilco on any level including innovation. Plus The Band only released 2 great albums and the rest were just downhill while Wilco's music is still improving (at least imo).

Again, you're looking back on thirty years of bands that have been influenced by the Band's sound. Of course they don't sound as innovative. I'll agree with you on the albums, though. Wilco definitely has released more excellent complete albums. The Band sure did squeeze a lot of great stuff into those first two albums, and their later albums have some gems also.

[LouieB]

I think bobsrevenge is having some fun with us. Clearly no one could be that clueless....

 

LouieB

[DawgSong]

if any of you are on dimeadozen there have been some tasty Danko solo

shows posted recently...go get 'em

[Synthesizer Patel]

I think the fact that you can actually hear the difference in music pre-Music From Big Pink/The Basement Tapes and post it, kind of shows that they will be more than a footnote. It's not about the people that heard it so much, as the musicians. And, not only can you hear a difference, but it actually improved it (unlike, say, Thriller) - so I think The Band have Wilco beat on that count. They might eventually have more quality albums than them (actually they already do), so they've got something on them I guess.

 

Anyway, . . . ah, forget it, what's the point

[BobsRevenge]

Wow. Lots to discuss here. This is fun.

I'm not sure what Little Feat's popularity in the 70's has to do with the Band's impact today, but that's neither here nor there. A lot more people can tell you what Britney Spears sounds like than can tell you what Wilco sounds like. Does that mean that Wilco are irrelevant?

No, it means they are on the same level. And Little Feat was popular around the same time as The Band (its really only a difference of a few years and there was plenty of overlap).

Still, it's clear that there's been plenty of substance abuse within Wilco, which is also beside the point. You would be hard pressed to name a musical act from the 70's that did not have a substance abuse problem, but that's irrelevant also. Richard Manuel's drinking problem, Rick Danko's DWI/accident/etc, the fact that the guys used to steal food to get by, that they did piles of cocaine - all have nothing to do with the body of music that they produced during their run. I harp on the song "Jawbone" all the time, and I'm sure everyone's tired of it. The lyrics are nothing special, but they have their clever moments. The structure of the song is weird, lots of tempo changes, kind of jarring. But it MOVES me. All caps, bold, 48 point font. The vocals (especially), the musicianship, Robbie's guitar solo, it raises the hair on the back of my neck, gives me chills, goosebumps, the whole deal. I could give a fuck if they were huffing spray paint between takes. It's quality.

I really was never a huge fan of Jawbone for some reason... But I Shall Be Released raises the hair on the back of my neck every damn time. Then again, so does At Least That's What You Said to an even greater degree.

I've heard Jeff Tweedy isn't the easiest guy to be a bandmate with. Jay Bennett comes off as a huge douche in IATTBYH. I'm sure Nels can be a dick. Glenn, probably not. Completely irrelevant to the impact of the music they make on me.

Umm... Robbie Robertson is the only one in The Band that actually made royalties on their music. He made a deal with the record company behind the backs of his bandmantes and made sure he was named as the sole song-writer when most songs were collaborative efforts. I'm sure Tweedy has never been that much of an asshole.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the instrumental prowess of the individual members of the Band. However, disregarding their own (perceived) shortcomings, sometimes the parts are greater than the whole, sometimes you get more from the whole than it would seem you should from the contribution of the various parts. I'd go with the latter here.

I can agree with that.

Again, you're looking back on thirty years of bands that have been influenced by the Band's sound. Of course they don't sound as innovative. I'll agree with you on the albums, though. Wilco definitely has released more excellent complete albums. The Band sure did squeeze a lot of great stuff into those first two albums, and their later albums have some gems also.

Well, I get miffed when people say The Band was the first to start bringing back that kind of sound. The Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, Dylan, and quite a few others were doing it before The Band released Big Pink. Also, let's not forget that Wilco hasn't been around 30 years to make that comparison.

 

 

Edit: I really don't want to do all this quoting again... so if this continues I'd rather it not be in this format.

[BobsRevenge]

I think the fact that you can actually hear the difference in music pre-Music From Big Pink/The Basement Tapes and post it, kind of shows that they will be more than a footnote. It's not about the people that heard it so much, as the musicians. And, not only can you hear a difference, but it actually improved it (unlike, say, Thriller) - so I think The Band have Wilco beat on that count. They might eventually have more quality albums than them (actually they already do), so they've got something on them I guess.

 

Anyway, . . . ah, forget it, what's the point

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

 

edit: sorry, I think I've entered my asshole mood.

 

I'm really not this much of a douchebag under normal circumstances!

[wishfulthinker]

in my opinion all music from here on out will eventually just be a footnote. there are too many outlets for music. nothing is mainstream anymore. there are so many places to get music the same people aren't going to the same places to get it. the radio only plays crap, which is how good bands made it big in the past. this won't happen anymore. i guess we can blame it on the mtv. (sorry if someone posted something like this already...i was too lazy to read the thread.)