How do these guys get their lives back?

[Spawn's dad]

[JUDE]

I'm requesting your resignation as I type this. Just know it's not about taking you down, it's about doing what is right.

 

Don't forget "renumeration".

[John Smith]

Jude you are reading way more into what I wrote than what I actually wrote, there are two different issues going on and you are lifting thoughts and quotes from one conversation and automatically applying them to another and making judgments about the intersection of those points that are not at all what I was intending, or saying. With the Rutgers/Imus case my comments were strictly about how the whole course of the discussion was eerily reminiscent of what I heard many times during the 1960's. I was not equating Sharpton or Jackson with King, I was equating the discourse of the uninvolved i.e. us on this thread, the talking heads on FOX & CNN etal... with discussion I heard in the 60's. I also was not equating the Rutgers kids with the Duke Kids, never did I make that equation, though you seemed to have inferred that was exactly my point.

 

The Duke kids are 19 - 22 year old kids (I'm taking the whole lacrosse team into account as they have all been tainted) They have their whole lives ahead of them. Or does their life, and the life of any person falsely accused end when they charges are dropped? They are not all from wealthy back grounds, but many are. Now that this is over these guys do have to pick up the pieces and move on, you can not erase what is already out there. The prosecutor and press were wrong from day one. They should have investigated quietly and competently then either issued charges or dropped the issue. Instead the prosecutor went out of control, the press went out of control (both ways blindly condemning the kids and the accuser). Yes these guys have been damaged and vilified, yet in the long run they have some very valuable tools to aid them in moving on. Should they finish school they will have a degree from Duke, which is a very valuable thing. A degree from Duke opens doors that many of us with degrees from public institutions don't even know exist. Duke is one of these very privileged schools (like Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame etc...) Where the graduate network is available to use for some great career choices. These guys will get on with their lives, they may or may not be haunted by this for years to come, I don't know, I am not a psychologist and do not know any of them. They will have an easier time of it than say a guy who was sent to death row 20 years ago, who turned out to be innocent, how does that guy move on? I don't know, he just does, just as they will.

 

Now how you made the jump from me comparing the Duke guys to the Rutgers girls using my thoughts and words is beyond me. Except for the fact that these are high profile college students in both cases (Athletes are always high profile at big schools) and the issue is black/white (though with the Duke case I would argue that the prosecutor's incompetence was the main issue, not the race of the parties involved...I think he had an axe to grind with Duke students) there is little in common that I see. The Duke guys were the focus of the issue, they were vilified by some lionized by others. With the Rutgers girls they were ancillary to Imus comments, They could have been any college team, the actual girls themselves were props to the story. I didn't make the Rutgers girls out to be victims, I don't make Imus out to be a racist prick. I think he is just a prick who tosses out stuff like the Nappy Headed Ho comments all the time and about lots of people other than just blacks. Was the Imus issue blown out of proportion? Sure was. Was his firing justifiable? Yep. But how can that be if I say it was blown out of proportion, simple, it is all business. As soon as one major sponsor dropped (P&G) Imus fate was sealed. Companies don't want to be associated with controversy. And P&G is a company that has so many brands out there to hit various segments of the market that they could not take a chance that they might lose business from the black segments. They are a low margin company who make their money with volume and they can not afford to lose volume.

 

The last thing I have to say on either topic is regarding the Rap/Radio host double standards. Leaders in the black community for years have been trying to put pressure on rappers to change the tone of their work. I don't listen to much rap so I have no clue as to the pervasiveness of ho/bitch etc... in the lyrics. It is a different ball of wax though from the Imus issue. With the Rap they don't have sponsorship, so it is very hard to put pressure on sponsors not to support various artists, though retailers have the right not to stock the stuff when it comes out. Pressure can be brought to bear on the retailers, and it has sporadically, pressure can be brought to bear on the artists, and it has, but they do what they do regardless because it sells. Is it a double standard? Maybe, but I've said it before it all comes down to money. If MSNBC were in the record business they would sell records spouting the same stuff Imus got fired for because Imus cost them sponsors $$ and a rap CD that sells a million copies makes them money. Imus would still have a job if sponsors did not leave and rappers would get dropped by their label if they did not make money. But I don't think it is a double standard because black community leaders have been working agaisnt the whole gangtsa rap culture for years, whether people believe it or not.

 

I'm done seee ya.

[fickerson]

you know what's awesome? when women are killed by their families for being raped. somehow i think these guys will end up okay.

[caliber66]

you know what's awesome? when women are killed by their families for being raped. somehow i think these guys will end up okay.

You know what's awesome? Misdirection.

 

Ficky, what you described is horrible, dispicable and deplorable, but it has nothing at all to do with the injustice visited upon the Duke lacrosse players, and how they cope with it.

[fickerson]

You know what's awesome? Misdirection.

 

Ficky, what you described is horrible, dispicable and deplorable, but it has nothing at all to do with the injustice visited upon the Duke lacrosse players, and how they cope with it.

 

just introducing a little perspective to a ridiculous thread.

[caliber66]

I don't think it's unreasonable to worry about the consequences these guys are going to have to face after more than a year of being accused, and convicted in the media, of a sex crime.

[ction]

Ficky, what you described is horrible, dispicable and deplorable, but it has nothing at all to do with the injustice visited upon the Duke lacrosse players, and how they cope with it.

 

Sure it does. They are white and attended Duke. Whatever shit they have to deal with is nothing compared to the shit other, less white and less male people have to deal with.

[fickerson]

I don't think it's unreasonable to worry about the consequences these guys are going to have to face after more than a year of being accused, and convicted in the media, of a sex crime.

 

personally i'm more worried about the thousands of sexual assault survivors who will be blamed or won't be believed as a direct result of this case. yes, the whole thing is an injustice, but theirs is only a part of it.

[JUDE]

Jude you are reading way more into what I wrote than what I actually wrote,...

I'm done seee ya.

 

I was merely using your posts to illustrate a thought process that seems to be quite prevalent around here. I apologize for using your words without permission. But I find it quite offensive to even mutter the words Martin Luther King in ANY relation to that extortionist Al Sharpton, of course another matter altogether.

 

If no one on this board can equivocate the injustice done to the Duke student with the perceived injustice done to the Rutgers students on any level, I don

[caliber66]

personally i'm more worried about the thousands of sexual assault survivors who will be blamed or won't be believed as a direct result of this case. yes, the whole thing is an injustice, but theirs is only a part of it.

And that is Mike Nifong's and the accuser's fault, not the fault of the three falsely accused students. There's no reason we can't talk about both.

[EL the Famous]

personally i'm more worried about the thousands of sexual assault survivors who will be blamed or won't be believed as a direct result of this case. yes, the whole thing is an injustice, but theirs is only a part of it.

 

I can't worry about both? Fick, that's just bush league. Wow, just...wow.

[Guest Jules]

I only get white strippers, so I'm good.

[John Smith]

[quote name='JUDE

[JUDE]

Use my words all you want just don't distort them and take what you think them to mean and imply that is what I meant. You are not even close to what I meant. Your use is similar to the fox news taking Obama's quote "nobody wants to play chicken with our troops" And shortening it to ""....wannts to play chicken with our troops" and postiing it next to a photo of Obama. Those were his words, Fox used them, So using your logic, that's OK.

 

OK, I guess you mentioned Martin Luther King by accident, not because of the imagery and meaning that his name carries. Whatever. Call me Fox news, but you and O'Reily could be cut from the same cloth, just different sides of it.

[caliber66]

[fickerson]

I can't worry about both? Fick, that's just bush league. Wow, just...wow.

 

how is it bush league? i never said you couldn't worry about both, i'm only addressing the subject of the thread.

[myboyblue]

how is it bush league? i never said you couldn't worry about both, i'm only addressing the subject of the thread.

 

this thread is about rich, white, LaCrosse playing, douchebags that didn't rape anyone. Let's get this straight!!

[John Smith]

[quote name='JUDE

[JUDE]

[EL the Famous]

how is it bush league? i never said you couldn't worry about both, i'm only addressing the subject of the thread.

 

i think you were more dismissing than addressing...at least initially. frankly, I think the role of the media and race in our judicial process is something to be just as concerend about. that and you're almost saying: 'you aren't guilty of raping that particular woman, but you're guilty of making it harder to convict those who are actually guilty.'

 

the sliding scale of suffering is kind of bush league. it's like telling someone they shouldn't be upset about anything because there is always somebody out there worse off than you.

[fickerson]

i think you were more dismissing than addressing...at least initially. frankly, I think the role of the media and race in our judicial process is something to be just as concerend about. that and you're almost saying: 'you aren't guilty of raping that particular woman, but you're guilty of making it harder to convict those who are actually guilty.'

 

i'm not even close to saying that - i agree with caliber that it's the fault of the prosecuter and the accuser - but i did say that more than anything i'm concerned for future victims. even though the percentage of false accusations is the same for rape as it is for any other felony (and it's small, at that), somehow people are always so quick to assume the girl is lying, and a case like this only reinforces that notion - which is harmful to everyone.

 

the sliding scale of suffering is kind of bush league. it's like telling someone they shouldn't be upset about anything because there is always somebody out there worse off than you.

 

i'll give you that, but i do think there are plenty more things to be outraged about in this world than whether or not these dudes will ever get their lives back. like i said before, i think they'll end up okay.

[caliber66]

i'm not even close to saying that - i agree with caliber that it's the fault of the prosecuter and the accuser - but i did say that more than anything i'm concerned for future victims. even though the percentage of false accusations is the same for rape as it is for any other felony (and it's small, at that), somehow people are always so quick to assume the girl is lying, and a case like this only reinforces that notion - which is harmful to everyone.

i'll give you that, but i do think there are plenty more things to be outraged about in this world than whether or not these dudes will ever get their lives back. like i said before, i think they'll end up okay.

Nicky, I'm glad you're sure the kids will be alright. After all, they've only been known as rapists for a year. I'm sure everyone will just forget about it and move on. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

You may be exaggerating a bit about the thousands of rapes that will be disbelieved simply because one woman made up a sexual assault. Now, I don't have a frame of reference, because I've neither raped anyone nor been raped, nor have I been falsely accused nor levied a false accusation. I don't imagine there's really any way of knowing just how this case will affect rape disclosure rates, so arguing the point is probably futile from either side. At any rate, if the accuser in this case causes any women (or men) not to come forward in the event of a legitimate sexual assault, she has that on her conscience as well as what she has done to the lives of the three she falsely accused. Cold comfort, sure, but no need to minimize the impact on the lacrosse players, who to this point have lost a year out of their lives living under a cloud of suspicion. Just as there is often skepticism when someone cries rape, the same applies when one is accused, but not convicted, of a sex crime. Compare "She was probably asking for it" or "She's just looking for attention" to "Well he must have done something, or she wouldn't have said anything." That's going to be a stigma that will be difficult to erase for some time regardless of their parents' net worth.

[myboyblue]

well stated Caliber.

[EL the Famous]

The Daily Show Does it Again...Genius.