SarahC Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 hey you guys, for my final speech in public speaking i am doing a presentation on music piracy and why i feel it is NOT illegal (even though the law says so). mostly i am using the opinions of jeff tweedy to back my own (because honestly jeff is about 10 times smarter than me, and he makes very great points). but i also need other opinions, so if you have one speak up! here are some questions: is it morally wrong to burn a cd for a friend? is it morally wrong to download music from the internet without paying for it? anyway, just say stuff if you want... i need a bit of help with this... thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I think you'd have a much easier time arguing the opposite side of this, since illegal downloading is, uh, illlegal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Not according to Jeff Tweedy. Hmm, I don't recall Jeff being a lawyer or him ever pulling lyrics from Blacks Law Dictionary. But I guess he could be considered an expert in the legalities of copyrights and publishing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 for my final speech in public speaking i am doing a presentation on music piracy and why i feel it is NOT illegal (even though the law says so).This is just my opinion, but you might want to change your thesis a bit, because what you just wrote completely negates it. If the law says it's illegal, then like big parm said, it's illegal. Instead, you may want to come from a slightly different angle: for example, why you feel that its illegality is self-defeating for the music industry. Also, you will want to avoid using the term "piracy," as that connotes lawlessness. Stick to phrases like "peer-to-peer downloading" or "music sharing." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I don't know that any of this is morally wrong.....morals are nearly always subjective. Burning a copy for a friend is okay if your friend wants to know if they should then buy the CD. In the good old days we used to tape albums for people. I did in fact sometimes buy the albums that were taped for me if I liked them enough or if in some cases I could find them (things went out of print a bit quicker in the vinyl age.) LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rufer Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 [quote name='JUDE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Hope Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 This is just my opinion, but you might want to change your thesis a bit, because what you just wrote completely negates it. If the law says it's illegal, then like big parm said, it's illegal. Instead, you may want to come from a slightly different angle: for example, why you feel that its illegality is self-defeating for the music industry. Also, you will want to avoid using the term "piracy," as that connotes lawlessness. Stick to phrases like "peer-to-peer downloading" or "music sharing."I agree with cryptique about wording... It has always amazed me how one "word" can mean so many different things to others...I've never felt that sharing music is illegal. As long as your not in it to "profit" then why not share... The more folks that hear the music and like it, then more times than not, they will buy the records. Our world today consist of the "www" and downloading shows is such a grand thing, how could it be bad? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Downloading music you haven't paid for is stealing whether you can get comfortable with rationalizations or not. It is illegal. Where is the grey here? I am not saying this from a high horse. I have downloaded my fair share. But when I did it, it was illegal, and I knew I was stealing. Even if/when I went to by the CD after sampling the tunes and liking them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 We are talking about commercial releases here - not live shows, right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Piracy is illegal. But just because it's against the law, it is not necessarily unethical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Piracy is illegal. But just because it's against the law, it is not necessarily unethical. I suppose stealing bread to feed your family, while illegal is probably not unethical. But you'd have a hard time convincing me that, absent the band's and the label's permission, stealing music isn't unethical. Assuming it's a commercial release. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 This is why discussing this in moral terms will eventually lead nowhere. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 This is why discussing this in moral terms will eventually lead nowhere. LouieB Come on! What discussions around here actually lead anywhere? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maddie Hope Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Downloading music you haven't paid for is stealing whether you can get comfortable with rationalizations or not. It is illegal. Where is the grey here?Who/whom says it is "illegal"? Our government? Next time I walk down by the river and pick a grape or two, would that be illegal cuz' it belongs to the State? (now I guess if I took the whole tree, that would be different) People who choose to profit from anothers hard work, yeah I'd agree it's stealing... Sharing is a gift... BTW.... "I suppose stealing bread to feed your family, while illegal is probably not unethical." This is survival... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 :DCome on! What discussions around here actually lead anywhere?You got a point there... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Who/whom says it is "illegal"? Our government? Next time I walk down by the river and pick a grape or two, would that be illegal cuz' it belongs to the State? (now I guess if I took the whole tree, that would be different) People who choose to profit from anothers hard work, yeah I'd agree it's stealing... Sharing is a gift... I just don't understand how people can make the claim that taking something that is offered for sale without paying for it, is not stealing. Rationalize it how you want, call it "sharing," but it's stealing. You may not be profiting from it, but you are still taking it from the person who owns it without paying for it. If you walk down by the river and pick a grape or two that belong to a farmer who would otherwise sell those grapes to a grocery store, you are absolutely stealing them from the farmer. If it's growing wild, it's not stealing. The music one downloads illegally (or copies illegally from someone who has paid for the album) does not grow on a vine, however, and is the property of the person or group who created the music. They, not you, get to decide whether or not you can have their product for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Who/whom says it is "illegal"? Our government? Ummmmm, yeah? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I just don't understand how people can make the claim that taking something that is offered for sale without paying for it, is not stealing. Rationalize it how you want, call it "sharing," but it's stealing. Um, it's not stealing, it's copying. It's illegal because the law says you don't have the right to copy it. You aren't actually taking anything from anyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You're arguing semantics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Calexico Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Downloading is illegal. I do plenty of it but I do realise that much. As for the giving a friend a copy thing, whatever you feel about that, not even the CIA could catch anyone and prosecute them for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You're arguing semantics. Yes I am, I feel it's worth arguing. The grape analogy doesn't work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Um, it's not stealing, it's copying. It's illegal because the law says you don't have the right to copy it. You aren't actually taking anything from anyone.If you went out and bought the album, you would be paying money to the artist (yes, and the record company, i know). When you copy an album illegally, you deprive that artist (and record company, of course) of money. Yes, it is stealing. I download music, but I don't kid myself about what I'm doing. Just like when I'm exceeding the speed limit, I don't make up some euphemism to kid myself about the fact that I'm breaking the law. It's speeding. Just because I do it, doesn't mean it's not illegal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yes I am, I feel it's worth arguing. The grape analogy doesn't work.The grape analogy was made by the poster I was responding to. It doesn't work either way, but stealing is stealing, whatever name you want to give it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ction Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 The grape analogy doesn't work. I agree. There aren't many analogies that do work when talking about file sharing, etc. The library analogy is another one that comes to mind... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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