In Praise of Selling out...in the Chicago Reader

[oceanman]

People need to lighten up.Shit, we need to make money,quit taking yourself so serious.Hell I met my gf when she was a combat boot wearing skinhead,I was a dirty hippie.All things considered we grew to raise a family and laugh at all this coperate sell out shit.I'm trying to get a job with UPS and she works for Starbucks.You tend to change your views when the kiddes come.

 

And by the way that commercial is my fav.,the song actually fits.The first few I thought where awful.

[bjorn_skurj]

Hey, it could be worse.

 

http://thesuperficial.com/2007/07/fergie_c...y_sells_out.php

[oceanman]

Ferie sold out before she ever sold anything at all.

[owhatevernevermind]

That's the thing with the sell-out, alot of people are out there actually fighting it, who have actually got really spiritually messed up by the meat grinder mentality or whatever. For my part, I haven't actually fought it, but I've done what I can to get away from it, and not to do more damage than necessary to survive; so it's like, where do they get off, saying mass market radio doesn't play their music? when has mass market ever played decent music? Why cave in now when they've already beaten it? They don't want to go on tour, do they think Long haul truckers want to drive for weeks on end to support their family? If they go out and sell crack instead, do they get off by saying, well, you know, I'm just trying to explore different avenues of feeding my kids? So why do we let a band off who has, on more than one occasion, gone on a tangent over his disapproval of consumerism. He did a Woody Guthrie fucking tribute album, didn't he? Now he's a car salesman? Come on dude.

[oceanman]

Usally truckers go on the road to get away from their families.Just saying.Woody was Dylans idol,how do you rate him?

[owhatevernevermind]

People need to lighten up.Shit, we need to make money,quit taking yourself so serious.Hell I met my gf when she was a combat boot wearing skinhead,I was a dirty hippie.All things considered we grew to raise a family and laugh at all this coperate sell out shit.I'm trying to get a job with UPS and she works for Starbucks.You tend to change your views when the kiddes come.

 

And by the way that commercial is my fav.,the song actually fits.The first few I thought where awful.

 

I'm not saying go live in a commune. It's like Henry Miller said, "if you can make it to work, say "fuck you" to your boss, (under your breath, of course,) you've got it half-licked. And when it comes to work, I'm a pretty free and easy dude. I'm not exactly slaving away at a corporate job.

[owhatevernevermind]

Hey, it could be worse.

 

http://thesuperficial.com/2007/07/fergie_c...y_sells_out.php

Actually, no, Fergie got a free concert for her fans out of another deal with cell phones, or something. As far as I know, we're still stuck paying for Wilco concerts.

[oceanman]

I can agree with that.I fought the battle for years,now I can't even say the words sell out without laughing.I guess after the last few years I've grown to like what I like despite of all the hoopla.If I like a band,thats all I need.I didn't always use to be like this,infact I was the complete opposite.

[owhatevernevermind]

Usally truckers go on the road to get away from their families.Just saying.Woody was Dylans idol,how do you rate him?

 

Who, Dylan? the last album was kind of iffy, the seventies stuff kind of came and went, he's sort of a voice from the past in a way, but, yah, I'm a fan,

If you're talking about the Victoria Secrets thing, my position would be when you're 65 and you're offered a chance to pose with lingerie models for money, you take it. It's sheer biology.

[oceanman]

That last line is great.To each their own.Have a good night.

[owhatevernevermind]

That last line is great.To each their own.Have a good night.

 

I'm out to, have a good one,

[owhatevernevermind]

You know, another thing, people have been saying on here you're free to intrepret songs anyway you want to, that is actually sort of the post-modern way of doing things and we let it go as if it's God's own truth. Wouldn't it be more correct to say, there are interpretations with a greater or lesser degree of validity, or that a certain intrepretation is valid given the lack of credible evidence to the contrary? I may be "free" to intrepret my credit card bill as neo-gothic poetry, but wouldn't an intrepetation of that text as a reminder to send money be a more credible interpretation? Given the fact that Wilco decided to sell these songs to a car company, doesn't that fact have to enter into the intrepretations of the texts in some way, whether we want to or not? My interpretation of "Sky Blue Sky" for example, was that it was a song about it being sort of sad to be moving on, and leaving home, but good to be getting over a rotten time, but since he wrote in a car, and sold it to a car company, mean the interpretation that he's just happy to be getting a new Volkswagen and glad he didn't get killed in his unsafe wreck of an American car gain a greater degree of validity, (or truth value, I'm not sure which is the better terminology,) than my version? And if I continue to believe in my version, wouldn't I be sacrificing the intellect to faith? Or sticking my head up my ass, to use terminology you marketing guys out there can understand. . . And when Republicans and other idiots do the same thing, aren't we Wilco fans sort of the first people to point it out?

[caliber66]

Uhh, I was trying to say, they aren't getting anything out of it.

Who are you to say what they should and should not get out of it?

 

Well, the guy in the commercial wouldn't be able to do it. . . So it's a guy pretending to do something he knows can't do in order to prove he's the man he knows he's not? Tweedy wants his songs associated with this type of stuff?

Nice bit.

[Beltmann]

Given the fact that Wilco decided to sell these songs to a car company, doesn't that fact have to enter into the intrepretations of the texts in some way, whether we want to or not?

No, it doesn't have to, because in a culture where commerce and art have always commingled freely, it's perfectly rational to separate Wilco's business moves from its artistic moves. You are describing a slippery slope that has no end... if we accept your premise, then every connotation ever connected to any work of art must be absorbed into an interpretation whether we want to or not. It would be impossible to read, see, or listen to anything without ascribing significance to any associations it might have, no matter how minor or transient they may be.

 

What matters here for me is that Jeff Tweedy and the rest of the band made music that they believe in. It is art first, and product second--and the fact that sometimes a song exists as product doesn't alter its original status as art. If we are talking about the validity of interpretations, I think it's a stretch to say that, because you now associate "Sky Blue Sky" with VW, that must mean the song is now actually about VW. That is your personal projection, and therefore, in my view, an interpretation that is easily outweighed by examining the text independent of external baggage. In terms of this conversation, I feel that the approach of formal criticism (song as context) outweighs the approach of listener-response criticism (audience as context). Within that framework, the baggage of a commercial--which itself has a very short shelf life--bears only a marginal impact upon how we interpret a song, and is therefore easy to neutralize.

[cryptique]

No, it doesn't have to, because in a culture where commerce and art have always commingled freely, it's perfectly rational to separate Wilco's business moves from its artistic moves. You are describing a slippery slope that has no end... if we accept your premise, then every connotation ever connected to any work of art must be absorbed into an interpretation whether we want to or not. It would be impossible to read, see, or listen to anything without ascribing significance to any associations it might have, no matter how minor or transient they may be.

 

What matters here for me is that Jeff Tweedy and the rest of the band made music that they believe in. It is art first, and product second--and the fact that sometimes a song exists as product doesn't alter its original status as art. If we are talking about the validity of interpretations, I think it's a stretch to say that, because you now associate "Sky Blue Sky" with VW, that must mean the song is now actually about VW. That is your personal projection, and therefore, in my view, an interpretation that is easily outweighed by examining the text independent of external baggage. In terms of this conversation, I feel that the approach of formal criticism (song as context) outweighs the approach of listener-response criticism (audience as context).

I'm all hot and bothered now.

[Thanatos]

I sort of question the rationale behind Wilco's statement that the VW ads will give them a new avenue with which to reach a wider audience, due to the skant amount of airplay they get on the radio. When I first got into Wilco they were playing venues like Lounge Ax and getting tix was relatively easy. I think they have long since ceased being a small, struggling band playing to a cult audience. The venues have gotten bigger and bigger and getting tickets has only gotten more difficult (at least in Chicago). They tour internationally and are a featured act at bigger festivals such as Lollapalooza, etc. They've had repeated performances on Leno, Letterman, and Conan. So, I guess I don't really consider them even close to being "unknown" anymore. Sure, they're not U2...but you can pick up Sky Blue Sky along with your morning latte at Starbucks. That's a far cry from handing out free cassette tapes from the back of a van after shows.

[LouieB]

Wow, I have been out of the loop and missed alot.

 

Incidently there are still tons of people, mostly older adults, who have never heard of Wilco. I am in Springfield at the moment and talked to any number of folks here (just up the road from Belleville and down the road from Chicago) who have no clue who this band is....then again alot of them probably don't know who the Smashing Pumpkins are either.

 

LouieB

[Thanatos]

Wow, I have been out of the loop and missed alot.

 

Incidently there are still tons of people, mostly older adults, who have never heard of Wilco. I am in Springfield at the moment and talked to any number of folks here (just up the road from Belleville and down the road from Chicago) who have no clue who this band is....then again alot of them probably don't know who the Smashing Pumpkins are either.

 

LouieB

 

Have they heard of Volkswagen in Springfield?

[Good Old Neon]

This is the sort of marketing/corporate issue that really gets under my skin.

 

http://machinist.salon.com/

[Spawn's dad]

What matters here for me is that Jeff Tweedy and the rest of the band made music that they believe in.

 

 

I honestly have no idea what they believe in. I do know that for some people these songs will be inextricably linked with these commercials, especially if they get played to death. That matters to me as much as it not bothering someone else matters to me.

 

I also know that despite protests that people should be allowed to talk about what they want these threads go on endlessly. The prior two threads should be pinned and required reading to get the password to even get in this thread. I also know that certain characters within the thread have had their major points thoroughly refuted, yet with each seemingly endless page get further and further from accepting that refutation which is the primary reason why the thread should be closed. 100 some odd pages with no new ground broken. It's this kind of crap that causes employers to restrict certain websites. Get back to work people.

[JUDE]

C'mon Sean, tell us how you really feel.

[Spawn's dad]

I got my eye on you.

[Sir Stewart]

"Once the music leaves your head, it's already compromised," reads a quote from Los Angeles musician Jack Brewer in the notes to Sonic Youth's 1994 album, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star.

[W(TF)]

Sure, they're not U2...but you can pick up Sky Blue Sky along with your morning latte at Starbucks. That's a far cry from handing out free cassette tapes from the back of a van after shows.

 

Starbucks (and VW) are brand new Wilco initiatives, none of their previous discs were available there. This is part of a conscious effort by the band, like it or not.

[Guest Jules]

So, regardless of whether they should or shouldn't have done it, we should also ask, what are they actually getting out of it?

 

I believe they said it was an effort to sell more records. How dare they.

 

And there's this

 

And if Tweedy is willing to put his stamp on a commercial, the content of which most certainly and definitely advocates killing someone rather than letting them touch your car, then yes, I am blaming Tweedy for all the problems in this country. At the very least, he's not any less responsible than anyone else now.

 

Say what?

 

I've noticed a trend since I've been back in commercials which use pseudo-violence to sell their product, the example that comes to mind is the Bud Light commercial where the one guy hits his friend over the head in order to take the beer.

 

 

How do you sleep at night?