In Praise of Selling out...in the Chicago Reader

[LouieB]

Have they heard of Volkswagen in Springfield?

Uh yea....just not Wilco I guess...'

 

I never thought THIS thread would last this long.

 

LouieB

[LouieB]

No, it doesn't have to, because in a culture where commerce and art have always commingled freely, it's perfectly rational to separate Wilco's business moves from its artistic moves. You are describing a slippery slope that has no end... if we accept your premise, then every connotation ever connected to any work of art must be absorbed into an interpretation whether we want to or not. It would be impossible to read, see, or listen to anything without ascribing significance to any associations it might have, no matter how minor or transient they may be.

 

What matters here for me is that Jeff Tweedy and the rest of the band made music that they believe in. It is art first, and product second--and the fact that sometimes a song exists as product doesn't alter its original status as art. If we are talking about the validity of interpretations, I think it's a stretch to say that, because you now associate "Sky Blue Sky" with VW, that must mean the song is now actually about VW. That is your personal projection, and therefore, in my view, an interpretation that is easily outweighed by examining the text independent of external baggage. In terms of this conversation, I feel that the approach of formal criticism (song as context) outweighs the approach of listener-response criticism (audience as context). Within that framework, the baggage of a commercial--which itself has a very short shelf life--bears only a marginal impact upon how we interpret a song, and is therefore easy to neutralize.

Beltman and I have talked about all this many times before. Art and commerce are completely comingled nearly everywhere. Artisans and artists sell the products of their labor for money. They have to. A singer puts out his hat for change and moves on from there. Either that or he or she works a day job and plays for free.

 

(BTW anyone seen the movie Once? Great movie...I have not seen it mentioned here yet..we need a thread on it.)

 

LouieB

[Sir Stewart]

(BTW anyone seen the movie Once? Great movie...I have not seen it mentioned here yet..we need a thread on it.)

 

LouieB

Yes, great movie.

[Edie]

Last night I was at the Museum of Broadcast Communication's 75th anniversary of FDRs acceptance speech at the Auditorium. Robert Vaughn did a reenactment of the speech, which was electrifying. I was reminded of Wilco (since I was at the Auditorium last to see them) and this thread (due to his New Deal and corporate responsibility) numerous times, but no more pointedly than when Bruce Dumont quoted Mo Udall:

 

"Everything has been said, but not everyone has said it."

[Thanatos]

Beltman and I have talked about all this many times before. Art and commerce are completely comingled nearly everywhere. Artisans and artists sell the products of their labor for money. They have to. A singer puts out his hat for change and moves on from there. Either that or he or she works a day job and plays for free.

 

LouieB

 

I think there's a clear difference between art comingling with commerce and art comingling with marketing. I'm more than happy to spend money to see a concert, buy an album or t-shirt with the band's logo, etc. because I feel a connection to their music and that's what I'm paying for. When that connection is manipulated in an effort to sell a product that has nothing to do with the music, it's natural for some fans to feel a bit cheated or start to doubt the sincerity of the music, imo.

[Good Old Neon]

I think there's a clear difference between art comingling with commerce and art comingling with marketing. I'm more than happy to spend money to see a concert, buy an album or t-shirt with the band's logo, etc. because I feel a connection to their music and that's what I'm paying for. When that connection is manipulated in an effort to sell a product that has nothing to do with the music, it's natural for some fans to feel a bit cheated or start to doubt the sincerity of the music, imo.

 

Exactly

[caliber66]

Exactly

[Good Old Neon]

Last night I was at the Museum of Broadcast Communication's 75th anniversary of FDRs acceptance speech at the Auditorium. Robert Vaughn did a reenactment of the speech, which was electrifying. I was reminded of Wilco (since I was at the Auditorium last to see them) and this thread (due to his New Deal and corporate responsibility) numerous times, but no more pointedly than when Bruce Dumont quoted Mo Udall:

 

"Everything has been said, but not everyone has said it."

 

Robert Vaughn?

 

Boy did they ever scrape the bottom of the barrel

[Sir Stewart]

Exactly – I find it ironic that the band achieved near mythic status for not caving into label demands w/r/t YHF – a situation that would have benefited the band directly – using their own sound to market themselves, yet, may of the folks who respect and applauded that decision have no problem with half of their new album being used as a soundtrack to a car.

The label demanded changes to YHF. Wilco didn't make any changes to SBS for VW.

[Spawn's dad]

I read on a blog that VW changed the Jetta for Wilco.

[JUDE]

The label demanded changes to YHF. Wilco didn't make any changes to SBS for VW.

 

that we know of.

[Good Old Neon]

Why are you sure caving into the label's demands would have benefitted Wilco more than not? The move certainly generated a lot of buzz they would not have had otherwise, and there's no guarantee that bowing to Reprise would have resulted in commercial success.

 

 

It may or may not have benefited them in the long run

[Sir Stewart]

My point

[Good Old Neon]

Really? You don't see the difference between making changes to an album, and not making any changes to an album?

 

 

Maybe not so much if not making changes to the album results in half of your next album being sold as a soundtrack to a car.

 

What has never been made clear, I don

[Thanatos]

On a somewhat related note...anyone seen the recent Target ad set to a cover of the Beatles' "Hello/Goodbye"? Basically a montage of happy, attractive people dancing around and enjoying a myriad of products available at Target. During the refrain of the song, the words "Hello...Good Buy" pop up on the screen.

I realize it's not the same as the Wilco/VW ads...but it's still an example of the way advertising attempts to foster brand loyalty by associating a product with a popular song/artist.

[caliber66]

Maybe not so much if not making changes to the album results in half of your next album being sold as a soundtrack to a car.

 

What has never been made clear, I don

[Sir Stewart]

What has never been made clear, I don

[Good Old Neon]

Someone apparently knows:

 

 

 

Interesting article on Slate regarding the relationship between Wilco and Reprise.

 

http://www.slate.com/?id=2069568

[MattZ]

I thought the Wilco/Reprise thing was done to sell more movies?

[Good Old Neon]

In one scenario, the label requested that Wilco compromise their art and make changes to their record in order to make it more commercially viable.

 

In the other scenario, Wilco took songs that were already finished and licensed them for use in a car commercial (or "extremely short-format music video" as I like to call it). The songs were not edited, as far as I can tell, aside from cutting them to length for the commercial.

 

It's not exactly the same thing, is it?

 

I did not say or suggest that it is exactly the same thing

[caliber66]

I did not say or suggest that it is exactly the same thing

[Good Old Neon]

On a somewhat related note...anyone seen the recent Target ad set to a cover of the Beatles' "Hello/Goodbye"? Basically a montage of happy, attractive people dancing around and enjoying a myriad of products available at Target. During the refrain of the song, the words "Hello...Good Buy" pop up on the screen.

I realize it's not the same as the Wilco/VW ads...but it's still an example of the way advertising attempts to foster brand loyalty by associating a product with a popular song/artist.

 

 

The term

[Dude]

The term

[Good Old Neon]

[quote name='Đ

[tjr]

The closest thing I can come to understanding this whole topic is from Jeff Tweedy himself. Download disc 2, track 17 to hear him talk a little on the topic of how we all make the songs what they are. I was there, and heard the way he spoke these words. As fans of the music and the band, I would think this might be helpful to you all. It doesn't address the VW thing, but the opinion of Jeff about his own songs.

 

http://owlandbear.com/downloads/20070224_t...flacf/Disc%202/

 

I'm paraphrasing a little, but Jeff's comments went something like this:

 

"Everybody is doing such an amazing job. Thank you so much for taking time to learn my songs. I tell people all the time, um that I get to do these shows, and everytime I tell them about it, I tell them this is really the most heart-warming experience that you can have as somebody that makes music and writes songs and puts out records and stuff, to go and play those songs with a bunch of people that really, um, apparently, love them, and just get the feel of what these songs might mean to somebody else. And I feel like it's an honor to get to be here and do this with you guys, so thank you...

 

... This allows me to feel what the songs might possibly mean, because for me, you know it's like... you guys make these songs what they are, and whether or not you play an instrument or not, it's always going to be up to you, as listeners or I don't know, for anybody's music, it all comes from you guys, so honest to God, I don't, I can't tell you how much I insight it gives me into the whole thing and makes me feel so proud to be a part of it."

 

Jeff Tweedy - February 24, 2007

Living Room Show in Barrington