The vinyl frontier

[Welsh Rich]

A bit UK-centric this, but with the closure of one of the biggest chain of independent record stores, Fopp, the other week it is a worrying time.

 

There's now no independent record shops in my town, just HMV or Virgin.

 

I also like the fact Prince is giving away his new album with the paper!

 

It's 1.30pm on a Tuesday afternoon and, aside from the metal gates encasing the front doors, it looks like business as usual for Fopp's Cambridge Circus store: Arcade Fire and White Stripes CDs on the front racks, piles of

[willywoody]

another internet forum i frequesnt is all abuzz at how sound + vision magazine is featuring a turntable on its cover and reviews a few in the latest issue, as they've ignord vinyl for years now supposedly.

[MattZ]

Bummer of an article.

 

That being said, vinyl appears to be making a bit of a comeback, in NYC at least. I spent last Saturday flipping through bins of new vinyl in 4 different stores in the Village. I know NYC isn't the average market for this stuff, but I was very surprised to see how much new music comes out on vinyl these days, and how much older stuff is being reissued. For instance, I think virtually all of Ryan Adams' back catalog is being reissued later this month on vinyl.

[willywoody]

Bummer of an article.

 

That being said, vinyl appears to be making a bit of a comeback, in NYC at least. I spent last Saturday flipping through bins of new vinyl in 4 different stores in the Village. I know NYC isn't the average market for this stuff, but I was very surprised to see how much new music comes out on vinyl these days, and how much older stuff is being reissued. For instance, I think virtually all of Ryan Adams' back catalog is being reissued later this month on vinyl.

 

 

and a couple of dbt's albums too i think.

 

most of the new music i buy is on vinyl nowadays and then either they give me a free download for the ipod or i burn the album to the hard drive. problem is i have to buy some of the vinyl from the uk or japan as it might not ever be released here in the u.s.

[Calexico]

Even with a free album attached to it, I still wouldn't buy that rag of a paper.

[W(TF)]

Vinyl still hangs on and may even outlast CD as a hard format. The big problem for brick'n'mortar retailers is the internet, both legit mail order shops as well as legal & illegal downloading. Sucks but times do change.

 

I have a lot of vinyl, and I'll keep buying more.

[jhh4321]

recently ive been trying to go with the "download the leak, by the vinyl if i like it" method which i have been enjoying very much. in most cases vinyl is cheaper and if you already have a digital copy then why not.

[tongue-tied]

i wish vinyl stuck around longer before finding its way to used bins and ebay. say if I wanted an LP from the Flaming Lips, my options are At War with the Mystics or anything before Transmissions. post-2006 or pre-1993. you'd think their best known albums would be the first to be reissued. the worst is finding what you like at a store and waiting too long to buy the damn thing. twice now i've waited too long to get two of my favorite albums. that might give more seasoned vinyl buyers a laugh, but there's much more heartbreak in vinyl than going to buy a CD.

[W(TF)]

If you're looking for new music on vinyl, this is a very good source.

 

 

http://www.diversevinyl.com/

 

GEMM is also a good source for used records if you want to avoid eBay. (or at least it used to be)

[LouieB]

Vinyl still hangs on and may even outlast CD as a hard format. The big problem for brick'n'mortar retailers is the internet, both legit mail order shops as well as legal & illegal downloading. Sucks but times do change.

 

I have a lot of vinyl, and I'll keep buying more.

I buy vinyl too, but mostly used. If CDs disappear vinyl will surely follow. The vinyl market is experiencing a momentary blip of resurgence (inflating the used market in ways it never was before), but don't expect this to last forever.

 

LouieB

[W(TF)]

I buy vinyl too, but mostly used. If CDs disappear vinyl will surely follow. The vinyl market is experiencing a momentary blip of resurgence (inflating the used market in ways it never was before), but don't expect this to last forever.

 

LouieB

 

Vinyl's "moment" has been happening for about 10 years now. Nothing earth-shattering in terms of total sales, but growing in most of those years, which can hardly be said for CD sales. It's a fickle market though, not much money to be made either producing or retailing the stuff. It's a complex and costly production process, with not much room for improvement via automation. Requires skilled people. Audiophiles and nostalgists really have the dance and hip-hop genres to thank for keeping the last and dwindling few pressing plants still open.

 

As far as most collectible vinyl, the moment (to sell) passed about 4-5 years ago, after all the collectors in the Far East got on the internet and drained their wallets. eBay has cooled down considerably. Rare jazz is still a fairly hot commodity, as well as obscure/rare Beatles, Elvis and such. Mono has come back in fashion as well.

[MattZ]

If CDs disappear vinyl will surely follow.

LouieB

 

Really? Why? I can definitely see a future where mp3s and mp3 players take over the world and CDs and CD players become nonexistant. Seems to me that the vinyl devotees could survive that and would hold onto their niche regardless.

[willywoody]

i wish vinyl stuck around longer before finding its way to used bins and ebay. say if I wanted an LP from the Flaming Lips, my options are At War with the Mystics or anything before Transmissions. post-2006 or pre-1993. you'd think their best known albums would be the first to be reissued. the worst is finding what you like at a store and waiting too long to buy the damn thing. twice now i've waited too long to get two of my favorite albums. that might give more seasoned vinyl buyers a laugh, but there's much more heartbreak in vinyl than going to buy a CD.

 

 

should still be able to find yoshimi around. picked mine up at www.acousticsounds.com i believe.

[LouieB]

Vinyl's "moment" has been happening for about 10 years now. Nothing earth-shattering in terms of total sales, but growing in most of those years, which can hardly be said for CD sales. It's a fickle market though, not much money to be made either producing or retailing the stuff. It's a complex and costly production process, with not much room for improvement via automation. Requires skilled people. Audiophiles and nostalgists really have the dance and hip-hop genres to thank for keeping the last and dwindling few pressing plants still open.

 

As far as most collectible vinyl, the moment (to sell) passed about 4-5 years ago, after all the collectors in the Far East got on the internet and drained their wallets. eBay has cooled down considerably. Rare jazz is still a fairly hot commodity, as well as obscure/rare Beatles, Elvis and such. Mono has come back in fashion as well.

I love these discussions. Vinyl's moment has been gone for 20 years, with a slight resurgence in the last 10 years. Compared to the entire number of CDs sold, vinyl is a very very small percentage. Sure it sell more than it did 5 yeears ago, but barel anything compared to 25 years ago. It is simply part of the collectable market, not the mainstream. Also you can't make me believe that the collectable market is dwindling when LPs that sold for 4 or 5 bucks a few years back are now goging for 8 to 10. I suppose if all you are talking about is high end stuff, which I don't collect, but for those of us who buy what we buy, used LPs are up all over the place.

 

Really? Why? I can definitely see a future where mp3s and mp3 players take over the world and CDs and CD players become nonexistant. Seems to me that the vinyl devotees could survive that and would hold onto their niche regardless.

Perhaps, but unless there continues to be a growing market for new LPs it also will disappear. Remember this is over 100 year old technology.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

Remember this is over 100 year old technology.

LouieB

 

True, but as mp3s continue to proliferate as subpar digital music files with advantages that skew to convenience over quality, it's also possible that there will be a backlash where people want their home systems to sound as good as possible. It's 100 yr old technology, but many people still think it's the best and warmest sounding format out there.

 

So, maybe CDs and CD players disappear and people use their mp3s and mp3 players for travel while home listeners go back to vinyl? Hey a guy can dream right? It seems logical to me.

[willywoody]

True, but as mp3s continue to proliferate as subpar digital music files with advantages that skew to convenience over quality, it's also possible that there will be a backlash where people want their home systems to sound as good as possible. It's 100 yr old technology, but many people still think it's the best and warmest sounding format out there.

 

So, maybe CDs and CD players disappear and people use their mp3s and mp3 players for travel while home listeners go back to vinyl? Hey a guy can dream right? It seems logical to me.

 

i recently got back into vinyl this year as the promise of high res digital formats (sacd and dvda) fizzled. hell they couldn't even get dual disc to take off. the bungling of the high res formats with too few releases and the format war itself did them in. talk about a niche, sacd is truly a classical niche now. near zero pop/rock releases and very little jazz even.

 

lp pressing plants are used to working in small numbers and remaning profitable. any joe off the street can give em a master recording and get a 1000 lps. some of them will even master the recording of the lp for you. i think vinyl's around for awhile and the recent gains are in part due to the failure of the high res formats.

[LouieB]

True, but as mp3s continue to proliferate as subpar digital music files with advantages that skew to convenience over quality, it's also possible that there will be a backlash where people want their home systems to sound as good as possible. It's 100 yr old technology, but many people still think it's the best and warmest sounding format out there.

 

So, maybe CDs and CD players disappear and people use their mp3s and mp3 players for travel while home listeners go back to vinyl? Hey a guy can dream right? It seems logical to me.

There are people who believe that LPs were a significantly inferior technology to 78, yet 78s never returned. I don't disagree that LPs sound great, but that was because I grew up with them. The numbers of people who believe that LPs sound better than CDs is still small compared to the over all number of people buying recorded music. Those people are generally either audiophiles (not me) or those who have a nostalgia thing for LPs (like me.) The number of people who believe that LPs are the way to go is going to continue to decline, despite the current hipness of LPs. Only really aware music consumers buy LPs. Many people don't even know new ones are being made. Since you can't buy them anywhere but specialty stores and the internet there is currently not a large market for them. But unless there is mass marketing, the niche will remain small and profit margins equally as small.

 

As for the argument that there is going to ba a major backlash against subpar MP3, as long as most consumers are listening to music files on i-pods and other such players and listening in ear phones or in cars, rather than on full blow stereo speakers, this type of digital media will remain the primary way music is consumed. Most people are perfectly happy with downloaded files and most can't really hear that much difference if any.

 

(For example, someone find the figures for how many LP versions of SBS have been sold as compared to the CD version.)

 

Its fun, but I just don't anticipate this run to last forever, however prices on used LPs continue to be inflated in some stores beyond their worth.

 

LouieB

[aricandover]

Many people don't even know new ones are being made.

 

yup. I know plenty of people who're surprised to learn that records are still being made, and that people are actually buying them.

[willywoody]

Only really aware music consumers buy LPs. Many people don't even know new ones are being made. Since you can't buy them anywhere but specialty stores and the internet there is currently not a large market for them. But unless there is mass marketing, the niche will remain small and profit margins equally as small.

 

 

LouieB

 

 

i've wondered what the margins are on some of these audiophile rereleases that go for $30-50 a single album. they sure sound good (as a generalization, some maybe not so much)

[LouieB]

True indeed (they are the same people who have never heard of Wilco too.... )

 

I know plenty of people here and elsewhere who have long ago given up vinyl records. Some are now trying to re-buy records they had in the past. Others have LPs but don't have a workable turntable and others simply buy them for the hell of it and don't play them.

 

LouieB

[W(TF)]

I was a fairly hardcore audiophile for many years, analog or death, used to scoff at compressed formats etc.

 

Hearing Leonard Cohen's '10 New Songs' on mp3 changed a lot of things for me, or at least was the first step in my attitude adjustment. I still prefer vinyl for when I want top sound quality, but I listen to a shitload of mp3 music now, mainly on headphones but also with a small T-amp and bookshelf speakers on my home office desk. The compression algorythms have improved, a lot. Most of the compression now done is not even occurring in the audible frequency spectrum. Or so I've been told.

 

Music is what matters......not audiophoolishness. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

[willywoody]

here in charleston we have two independent stores that stock new vinyl and used, with another that just stocks used vinyl. none of them carry the greatest selection, like waterloo or amoeba, but 52.5 downtown on king st is the best of the three and specializes in more obscure titles. i'm not certain how he stays afloat to tell you the truth but its definitely worth checking out if you ever make it to charleston. he's been in business over ten years so i hope he can keep it going.

[nettles]

For anyone in or around Philly, a fantastic new Record Store has opened up on 5th and Girard. It's called Tequila Sunrise ( not the coolest name, I know, but pay no mind ). Excellent stuff, great condition, and affordable. It's about 2 blocks from my house which makes the idea of actually saving money that much more difficult.

[Analogman]

I was at Jerry's in Pittsburgh the other day - they sort of laughed at me (again).

 

Here is what I am looking for - in case any of you dudes happen to see the following somewhere:

 

Moby Grape (first album)

Wow/Grape Jam

Moby Grape '69

Truly Fine Citizen

 

(not the Edsel or other re-issues - but rather original pressings)

[LouieB]

I was at Jerry's in Pittsburgh the other day - they sort of laughed at me (again).

 

Here is what I am looking for - in case any of you dudes happen to see the following somewhere:

 

Moby Grape (first album)

Wow/Grape Jam

Moby Grape '69

Truly Fine Citizen

 

(not the Edsel or other re-issues - but rather original pressings)

How much will you pay?? I have seen some Grape on occasion lately.

 

LouieB