Atticus Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 14 More Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Bush is going to compare Iraq to Vietnam (again) today, but with the caveat that the analogy only works one way, that leaving early would be bad for the Middle East, but not that the war of choice is a black mark on American foreign policy, a tremendous misstep for America, and an unnecessary tragedy for thousands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anodyne Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 "We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere," al-Maliki said can we just leave already? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Sigh. It's no wonder that America would prefer to forget about this war, even as it continues. It's depressing as hell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 President Bush Urges Patience, Cites Progress During Speech On Iraq Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anodyne Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 i'd prefer to have congress amend the war powers act so that the president cannot deploy troops in combat operations overseas for longer than 14 days without declaring war. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilco Worshipper Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 My nephew is over there on his FOURTH fucking tour...how many times is enough?!? For fuck's sake!!! Sorry...I HATE it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Bush is going to compare Iraq to Vietnam (again) today, but with the caveat that the analogy only works one way, that leaving early would be bad for the Middle East, but not that the war of choice is a black mark on American foreign policy, a tremendous misstep for America, and an unnecessary tragedy for thousands. Iraq is all of the above, but it's not Vietnam. What made Vietnam so much harder to tolerate, apart from all the atrocities of war, was the Draft. I think that's the key reason you don't see mass youth protests against Iraq...it just doesn't "affect" most of us very directly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
quarter23cd Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 can we just leave already?No. This isn't about them, silly. This is about holding out for that ever-diminishing chance that by some fluke this might end better than expected and allow this president to not look like a complete asshat in the history books. Isn't that what's really important to the American people? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 My nephew is over there on his FOURTH fucking tour...how many times is enough?!? For fuck's sake!!!Sorry...I HATE it Four? Holy shit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wilco Worshipper Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Four? Holy shit. Yea... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Iraq is all of the above, but it's not Vietnam. What made Vietnam so much harder to tolerate, apart from all the atrocities of war, was the Draft. I think that's the key reason you don't see mass youth protests against Iraq...it just doesn't "affect" most of us very directly. I'm in complete agreement with you. My point was merely that Bush wants to make the comparison, but only by picking and choosing the aspects that best suit his wonderful vision of war. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
W(TF) Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'm in complete agreement with you. My point was merely that Bush wants to make the comparison, but only by picking and choosing the aspects that best suit his wonderful vision of war. I knew that's what you meant. My comment wasn't a retort, just a reminder (to all of us). Dubya is behaving as expected, as always.....the rest of us need to keep each other grounded in some sort of reality, if it's possible. Jm2c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Here's the thing: W keeps saying that we MUST WIN in Iraq, that our very way of life depends on it. OK. So what are we doing surging with 20K or 50K troops and not 200K troops? Why haven't I heard a call for all able-bodied Americans to join this fight that is essential to our very survival? Where are the bond rallies, the rationing, the conversion to war production? Where is the shared sacrifice? Once everybody knows somebody in the fight (or might have to enter the fight), then there will be a real push to get this thing done the right way and get the hell out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Yup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Got my spine I've got my Orange Crush.... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Got my spine I've got my Orange Crush.... LouieB Have you been listening to XRT again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Here's the thing: W keeps saying that we MUST WIN in Iraq, that our very way of life depends on it. OK. So what are we doing surging with 20K or 50K troops and not 200K troops? Why haven't I heard a call for all able-bodied Americans to join this fight that is essential to our very survival? Where are the bond rallies, the rationing, the conversion to war production? Where is the shared sacrifice? Once everybody knows somebody in the fight (or might have to enter the fight), then there will be a real push to get this thing done the right way and get the hell out. Sadly too many war supporters say this exact thing...our very way of life depends upon this war, or this is the gravest threat ever to face our nation. But when pressed on joining, they invariably have more important things to do, but they support the troops... What is more important than your way of life the survival of our society? None of them can answer. My frined who is a recruiter has zero enlistments from college age war supporters, but he gets lots of pats on the back! I say if it is that big, then send in a million troops and get the job done entirely (though I recognize you can not force people to think and act the way you want them too for more than a short period of time) What they doom and gloom end of our way of life crowd absolutely misses is that we have 150,000 troops and twice that many contractors over there and we can nto pacify the country. What makes anyone in their rightmind think that 15 - 30,000 irregualr guerilla types could pacify our country? What makes anyone think that any more thna a few could ever make it over here. People just don't think anymore, they are too wrapped up in their sloganeering media and politicians. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/22/...racy/index.html This. This makes me mad. The only possible good thing that could have come out of this clusterfuck and abomination we perpetrated in Iraq was to give the people who haven't been fucking killed yet a chance at having a better way of life. We could have left Saddam in and gotten to the same point we are at now. I have tried to keep an open mind about Iraq, out of respect to those who have sacrificed so much, but now I condemn the war as a waste of lives and money and hold those who foisted it upon us in eternal scorn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tweedling Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 What makes anyone think that any more thna a few could ever make it over here.I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I believe this statement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Here's the thing: W keeps saying that we MUST WIN in Iraq, that our very way of life depends on it. OK. So what are we doing surging with 20K or 50K troops and not 200K troops? Why haven't I heard a call for all able-bodied Americans to join this fight that is essential to our very survival? Where are the bond rallies, the rationing, the conversion to war production? Where is the shared sacrifice? Once everybody knows somebody in the fight (or might have to enter the fight), then there will be a real push to get this thing done the right way and get the hell out.That's a spot on post Tug. I've often wondered the same thing. In other news, today began a media blitz with commercials (featuring the surviving families of dead soldiers) basically saying that we MUST stay & finish the job, our security depends on it, if we leave now we 'embolden the enemy' & all that. I swear I turned on the 6 o'clock news tonight & in one half hour of programming every commercial break had one of these spots. 3 of 'em in 30 minutes. Good lord this makes me sick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chendizzle Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Pretty scary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tugmoose Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Iraq and Vietnam: The Real Parallel "In the middle of a crisis even more dangerous than Vietnam, President George W. Bush sits isolated in the White House, surrounded by a dwindling band of advisers, and continues to talk about winning in Iraq. His supporters in Congress and the media seize every short-term success, in Washington or Iraq, to flog their opponents as defeatists and lay the groundwork for a stab-in-the-back narrative. His critics in Congress and the media clamor for him to admit defeat and begin an immediate withdrawal. Over the course of 2007, the two sides haven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Here's the thing: W keeps saying that we MUST WIN in Iraq, that our very way of life depends on it. OK. So what are we doing surging with 20K or 50K troops and not 200K troops? Why haven't I heard a call for all able-bodied Americans to join this fight that is essential to our very survival? Where are the bond rallies, the rationing, the conversion to war production? Where is the shared sacrifice? Once everybody knows somebody in the fight (or might have to enter the fight), then there will be a real push to get this thing done the right way and get the hell out. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...96494-1,00.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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