Sigur Ros will not sell out.

[EL the Famous]

One performs an essential task, the other a completely frivolous one

[Good Old Neon]

what you mean to say is that One performs what you think is an essential task, the other what you think a completely frivolous one. you do know you can do your own plumbing? you are going to extremes again saying something is either essential or frivolous, that isn't reality.

 

yep, i'm sure the ratings for This Old House and HGTV are WAY higher than The World Series or ESPN.

 

No I mean, one really performs an essential task, regardless of what I think

[MattZ]

One performs an essential task, the other a completely frivolous one

 

To paraphrase Mao -- baseball is the opiate of the masses.

 

Mao clearly thought there was some benefit to distracting the masses. Maybe making baseball way more essential to Communists than you give credit. Possible?

 

EDIT: my point is that all governments need distraction to govern -- making those distractions essential. Way more essential in the grand scheme of things than plumbers. The guy who is underpaid in a capitalist country or frustrated with distribution of wealth in a socialist country needs to turn on the tube to watch some baseball. Keeps him in his place.

[Beltmann]

Because I cannot think of a single situation in which I would ever, even if I lived to be a million years old, need to open the phone book, and proceed to look up a baseball player to perform a task, like say, a plumber.

But for the most part, plumbers are interchangeable, one as good as another. I don't mean to minimize their contributions; I believe firmly that anyone doing honest, useful work ought to earn a good living. Still, it's not the same with ballplayers, since ballplayers are often not interchangeable--especially when we're talking about top stars like A-Rod.

 

I agree with you that the degree of worship and wealth accorded to athletes is obscene, and that many other professionals do not receive the respect, and by extension the compensation, that they deserve. This certainly reflects poorly on our values as a culture. Still, in your attempt to argue that athletes are overvalued--a fair observation that I agree with--I think you overstate your case, and go much too far when you say that athletes deserve no value at all.

 

I think you've failed to recognize why so many people enjoy watching a skilled athlete perform. Beyond the meaning of team sports--which provide a center for community unity, and allow us to connect with something larger than ourselves, among other things; read Hornby's memoir Fever Pitch for an insightful defense of why sports matter--the appeal of watching individual achievement is innately human. The public is fascinated with figures like A-Rod because they serve as human exemplars; they are human like us, but their excellence reminds us all of what we're made of, and what we're capable of as a species. A display of uncommon skill--whether intellectual or physical--has the ability to inspire. In other words, athletes do provide an important service--it may not be tangible, like a pluimber's contribution, but a spiritual, abstract service is no less meaningful or essential to a society. The same defense applies to artists, after all.

 

Isn't that what Vonnegut tried to tell us with "Harrison Bergeron"?

[Spawn's dad]

But for the most part, plumbers are interchangeable, one as good as another.

 

 

kind of like english teachers?

 

come on, you're better than that.

[Beltmann]

I was speaking relatively--and you know it. And yes, English teachers are far more interchangeable than professional baseball players. If I quit today, my job would be easily filled by someone of relatively equal ability. But if a superstar leaves a team, very few others could fill that hole. This is why, while I feel underpaid, I don't think I should earn anywhere near what a professional athlete earns. Their abilities are relatively rare and therefore of greater value.

[JUDE]

But for the most part, plumbers are interchangeable, one as good as another. I don't mean to minimize their contributions; I believe firmly that anyone doing honest, useful work ought to earn a good living. Still, it's not the same with ballplayers, since ballplayers are often not interchangeable--especially when we're talking about top stars like A-Rod.

 

Exactly. I can teach anyone how to use a spanner wrench, sweat solder copper pipe, set a toilet, install a garbage disposal, if they have a good memory or take rudimentary notes they can go out in the world and perform those tasks. I can also teach them how to play a G, A7, Dmin chord, etc. on the guitar, but I don't expect them to go out and write a hit song or join Wilco as the new lead guitarist.

[Spawn's dad]

I was speaking relatively--and you know it. And yes, English teachers are far more interchangeable than professional baseball players. If I quit today, my job would be easily filled by someone of relatively equal ability. But if a superstar leaves a team, very few others could fill that hole. This is why, while I feel underpaid, I don't think I should earn anywhere near what a professional athlete earns. Their abilities are relatively rare and therefore of greater value.

 

Actually I think it's closer than you seem to think so, proportionally speaking. There are plumbers who are far superior to others. And finding that ace isn't necessarily an easy task, especially when you get into high end design kind of jobs. Same thing with auto mechanics. Lose a great English teacher and you may not replace him with anyone of nearly the same caliber, though obviously salaries there are set by contract. Look at sales job; if a company loses their ace salesperson to a competitor it could be devastating.

[Good Old Neon]

But for the most part, plumbers are interchangeable, one as good as another. I don't mean to minimize their contributions; I believe firmly that anyone doing honest, useful work ought to earn a good living. Still, it's not the same with ballplayers, since ballplayers are often not interchangeable--especially when we're talking about top stars like A-Rod.

 

I agree with you that the degree of worship and wealth accorded to athletes is obscene, and that many other professionals do not receive the respect, and by extension the compensation, that they deserve. This certainly reflects poorly on our values as a culture. Still, in your attempt to argue that athletes are overvalued--a fair observation that I agree with--I think you overstate your case, and go much too far when you say that athletes deserve no value at all.

 

I think you've failed to recognize why so many people enjoy watching a skilled athlete perform. Beyond the meaning of team sports--which provide a center for community unity, and allow us to connect with something larger than ourselves, among other things; read Hornby's memoir Fever Pitch for an insightful defense of why sports matter--the appeal of watching individual achievement is innately human. The public is fascinated with figures like A-Rod because they serve as human exemplars; they are human like us, but their excellence reminds us all of what we're made of, and what we're capable of as a species. A display of uncommon skill--whether intellectual or physical--has the ability to inspire. In other words, athletes do provide an important service--it may not be tangible, like a pluimber's contribution, but a spiritual, abstract service is no less meaningful or essential to a society. The same defense applies to artists, after all.

 

Isn't that what Vonnegut tried to tell us with "Harrison Bergeron"?

 

What Rodriquez can do, I think, is hit a ball and field a ball with more skill than most people

[Good Old Neon]

I was speaking relatively--and you know it. And yes, English teachers are far more interchangeable than professional baseball players. If I quit today, my job would be easily filled by someone of relatively equal ability. But if a superstar leaves a team, very few others could fill that hole. This is why, while I feel underpaid, I don't think I should earn anywhere near what a professional athlete earns. Their abilities are relatively rare and therefore of greater value.

 

The ability to down 60 hot dogs a minute is extremely rare, but I would never suggest a person who can do so is more valuable than a teacher such as yourself. Your brilliance is extremely evident, your students are extremely fortunate to have such a thoughtful teacher, that is of much greater value than the rare ability to consistently hit a ball thrown at 99 mph.

[EL the Famous]

I imagine both of those shows, or in the case of HGTV, that channel, pull in millions of viewers.

 

ESPN, Disney Tie In Primetime

Disney-Owned Services Average 2.3 Household Rating, Edging USA

-- Multichannel News, 10/24/2007 11:30:00 AM

 

It was a tight race atop primetime cable last week.

 

Sister services ESPN and Disney Channel averaged a 2.3 household ratings average, just ahead of USA Network

[ction]

A 2.3 would roughly equate to 3M viewers.

 

The 2007 Word Series earned a household rating of 10.6 (17M viewers)...Highest rated-ever HGTV show 'Design Star' came in with a household rating of 2.21 (6 million).

 

you hit the nail on the head in your post when you talked about SKILL...there is a HUGE difference in skills on display in a little league game and skills on display in an MLB game. same applies to a plumber...or a teacher...the more accredited (AKA skilled you are), the more $ you make.

 

and while i agree that humans enjoy watching someone with great skill perform a task...it is not regardless of the actual activity. they enjoy watching some thing A LOT more than others...the stats above prove that. you may like watching plumbers more than baseball, but you aren't in the majority. don't even get me started about the importance of futbol in countries outside of ours.

 

again, people can and do have just as much of an emotional connection in their lives w/ sports as they do music...perhaps more. there are people that will watch every game on TV or in person that haven't bought a CD in 10 years and vice versa...it's what makes the world go around, you can choose what you want to do w/out having to do what jnickerson tells you is important.

 

Frivilous post.

[Good Old Neon]

A 2.3 would roughly equate to 3M viewers.

 

The 2007 Word Series earned a household rating of 10.6 (17M viewers)...Highest rated-ever HGTV show 'Design Star' came in with a household rating of 2.21 (6 million).

 

you hit the nail on the head in your post when you talked about SKILL...there is a HUGE difference in skills on display in a little league game and skills on display in an MLB game. same applies to a plumber...or a teacher...the more accredited (AKA skilled you are), the more $ you make.

 

and while i agree that humans enjoy watching someone with great skill perform a task...it is not regardless of the actual activity. they enjoy watching some thing A LOT more than others...the stats above prove that. you may like watching plumbers more than baseball, but you aren't in the majority. don't even get me started about the importance of futbol in countries outside of ours.

 

again, people can and do have just as much of an emotional connection in their lives w/ sports as they do music...perhaps more. there are people that will watch every game on TV or in person that haven't bought a CD in 10 years and vice versa...it's what makes the world go around, you can choose what you want to do w/out having to do what jnickerson tells you is important.

 

and while i agree that humans enjoy watching someone with great skill perform a task...it is not regardless of the actual activity. they enjoy watching some thing A LOT more than others...the stats above prove that. you may like watching plumbers more than baseball, but you aren't in the majority. don't even get me started about the importance of futbol in countries outside of ours.

 

 

Because, through exposure, we

[Spawn's dad]

Baseball could disappear tomorrow with little to no repercussions

 

really?

[ction]

the humble trash collector.

 

[EL the Famous]

and don't kid yourself that overall sports viewship leans so heavy towards males...

 

in 2004, Average broadcast ratings among women dropped 18 percent from a 2.37 to a 1.94 rating per week. Ratings for women watching basic cable sports fell 44 percent from a 0.18 rating to a 0.10.

 

in 2004, Average broadcast ratings fell 9 percent from a 4.09 to a 3.71, and cable ratings were down 36 percent from a 0.39 to a 0.25.

 

not that huge of a disparity in overall ratings averagesand the only reason it dipped so much at the time of this report, was due to lack of significantly skilled stars in the female skewing sports of figure skating, tennis and the WNBA. before the drop, we're only talking a difference of 1.7 rating points.

 

Because, through exposure, we

[Good Old Neon]

really?

 

Really, there have been several strikes, 1994 comes to mind, yet, the world kept a turning.

 

Just imagine what would happen in New York if trash collection came to a complete halt for 232 days.

[Spawn's dad]

so how many people, aside from a-rod, do you suppose directly earn their livelihood from MLB?

[EL the Famous]

really?

 

of course...the tens of thousands coaches, organizational/front office employees, stadium crews, merchandise manufacturers and employess of surrounding businesses to ballparks would be just fine.

 

and never mind the sense of community that a common bond over a sports team can provide in cases like the New Orleans Saints near-playoff birth to the city they represent. sports, in some cases, unifies people in a way that is on par or even rivals art.

 

and let's not delve deeper into that 1994 strike to see the financial implications to those aforementioned employees or the money spent on marketing to get people to return to the game.

 

sports, bah...it's a fad and will never catch on enough to be important to anybody.

 

again, man, your denying that things can be equally important depending on who's looking at them and in what context.

[ction]

of course...the tens of thousands coaches, organizational/front office employees, stadium crews, merchandise manufacturers and employess of surrounding businesses to ballparks would be just fine.

 

and never mind the sense of community that a common bond over a sports team can provide in cases like the New Orleans Saints near-playoff birth to the city they represent. sports, in some cases, unifies people in a way that is on par or even rivals art.

 

and let's not delve deeper into that 1994 strike to see the financial implications to those aforementioned employees or the money spent on marketing to get people to return to the game.

 

sports, bah...it's a fad and will never catch on enough to be important to anybody.

 

again, man, your denying that things can be equally important depending on who's looking at them and in what context.

 

Did you type that post on your company cell phone?

 

I bet your favorite baseball player is Curt Schilling.

[EL the Famous]

'Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski. Condolences. The bums lost. My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?'

[the carlos]

I've been busy this morning, has sigur ros sold yet?

[Beltmann]

Actually I think it's closer than you seem to think so, proportionally speaking. There are plumbers who are far superior to others. And finding that ace isn't necessarily an easy task, especially when you get into high end design kind of jobs. Same thing with auto mechanics. Lose a great English teacher and you may not replace him with anyone of nearly the same caliber, though obviously salaries there are set by contract. Look at sales job; if a company loses their ace salesperson to a competitor it could be devastating.

I don't think what I said contradicts your point, which I already acknowledge. I think I just failed to clarify what I meant by "relatively," mostly because I didn't think it was necessary. Admittedly, it was a vague statement--but the larger point holds, I think, regardless of the vague and debatable meaning of "relatively."

[Good Old Neon]

and don't kid yourself that overall sports viewship leans so heavy towards males...

 

in 2004, Average broadcast ratings among women dropped 18 percent from a 2.37 to a 1.94 rating per week. Ratings for women watching basic cable sports fell 44 percent from a 0.18 rating to a 0.10.

 

in 2004, Average broadcast ratings fell 9 percent from a 4.09 to a 3.71, and cable ratings were down 36 percent from a 0.39 to a 0.25.

 

not that huge of a disparity in overall ratings averagesand the only reason it dipped so much at the time of this report, was due to lack of significantly skilled stars in the female skewing sports of figure skating, tennis and the WNBA. before the drop, we're only talking a difference of 1.7 rating points.

 

 

 

okay, use a fairer comparison of futbol/soccer versus cow chip tossing for universal appeal...still a sport and considered of even greater importance globally than we view baseball here. how do you think it got to the point where we are conditioned to watch certain events over others...BECAUSE ENOUGH PEOPLE FOUND IT ENJOYABLE FOR IT TO BECOME APPEALING IN A LARGER SENSE.

 

like always, you change your points around...and, actually, contradict yourself. you said earlier that people's importance should not be attributed to how much $ they make and nobody was neccesarily debating that. so, why would you be lobbying that atheletes are overpaid and/or should make the same (or less) as a plumber?

 

You know El, for a self proclaimed hard worker such as yourself, well, you sure do spend a lot of time on the Internet.

 

Ok

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

 

 

Ok...

 

Interesting picture of the Korean peninsula.

 

What does it represent and what is its significance in this ass whip of a thread?