Sigur Ros will not sell out.

[Atticus]

wasn't one of the big problems with the music business not so long ago the fact that the record companies made all the money? now that bands and artists are coming up with new ways of getting compensated for and from their music, they're all the sudden sell-outs?

[OOO]

I think it a unqiuely rock thing that people idolize these folks.

 

 

 

 

I agree.

[tongue-tied]

Jon looks so sad sipping his smoothie.

[stooka]

hahahaha no silly.

I just think its a wierd phenonmena that people look up to these people. I love the beatles and Bob Dylan and slew of other assholes.

 

I think a lot of people admire and idolize these folks, my point is they are undeserving.

I think it a unqiuely rock thing that people idolize these folks. I think it has to do with hearing lyrics and a message and then the listener assumes they stand for it so they admire them.

 

Its like the Grateful Dead, a lot of people really worship those guys part of it has to do with what they were singing about. Those lyrics though weren't even written by them but by a man behind the curtian (Robert Hunter).

 

I don't see so many people worshiping Jazz musicans or classical artists as indiviudals. Most look at them as great artists (people love Miles but we all know he was a dick). Which is how these rock people should be looked at as, great artists not heros or humanitarians. Their roles get confused and in process they make lots of money and exploit the system.

 

I was going to say something really clever, but I changed my mind.

[jc4prez]

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

when your right your right. The entertainment industry as a whole. Everyone plays a part.

 

The reason I said uniquely rock though was because in the prior post I was talking about how Jazz musicans don't get idolized as people but as musicans.

[jc4prez]

wasn't one of the big problems with the music business not so long ago the fact that the record companies made all the money? now that bands and artists are coming up with new ways of getting compensated for and from their music, they're all the sudden sell-outs?

 

 

that problem is still there. But does that mean artists should sit on a pedestal (finacially and emotinally).

 

Their getting compinsated by supporting capitalism something that I'm against. Like I sad before the indivual isn't to blame. They are just manifesting an evil system.

[Beltmann]

if they are exploting the system they aren't worth admiring. People worth admiring (rember this is in my mind not right or wrong) are those who bring us closer together as a speices and doing things that aren't for self gain but for helping save our planet or help bring us to peace.

 

But then again if were just talking a about a person playing guitar wanting to look up to someone who does it better then she or he well theres nothing wrong with that. But thats what you should be admiring is their talent.

I tend to feel the same way. Many of my art "heroes" were otherwise jackasses, and not really worth admiring as exemplary citizens. But no matter: My interest in them is related strictly to their art, and the other aspects of their identity usually bear zero weight in my mind.

[caliber66]

that whole little scene they had going back there in the sixties

When were the Beatles (and specifically Paul) about anything other than selling records? George got into the whole Eastern spiritualism thing, and the other guys went along for a while, but they dropped that shit pretty quickly. None of them were ever hippies or part of the free love/go live on a commune scene.

[jc4prez]

When were the Beatles (and specifically Paul) about anything other than selling records? George got into the whole Eastern spiritualism thing, and the other guys went along for a while, but they dropped that shit pretty quickly. None of them were ever hippies or part of the free love/go live on a commune scene.

 

 

All you need is love, they preached peace and love a lot. Fuck everytime ringo is on tv he'll say it a good ten or twelve times.

[Analogman]

I struggle with the fact that one of my heroes sells his songs to CSI shows - but as a wise man once said -

 

Let me go give these Koreans s'more business.

[caliber66]

All you need is love, they preached peace and love a lot. Fuck everytime ringo is on tv he'll say it a good ten or twelve times.

They also sang "Money (That's What I Want)" a lot in their younger days. And they deplored the tax rate for rich people in Britain.

 

Like I said, they dabbled in the Eastern spiritualism, but they were never anything but capitalists.

 

Also, what's a ticket to a Ringo concert go for these days.

[jc4prez]

They also sang "Money (That's What I Want)" a lot in their younger days. And they deplored the tax rate for rich people in Britain.

 

Like I said, they dabbled in the Eastern spiritualism, but they were never anything but capitalists.

 

Also, what's a ticket to a Ringo concert go for these days.

 

 

i have no idea. Saw him a few years ago on account of my grandmothers gambling addiction .

[Beltmann]

I'm saying its more understanble for a person in the lower end of the ecomonic scale to sell out not that its right.

Your right the degree is irrevelent. But these people (rock stars) are taking it to the extreme. They could survive and live good lives without selling out furthur but they need more. Most of the time people sell out in order to ensure survival; that in my mind is understandble. Not living beyond your means.

I totally agree with you that capitalism breeds a soulless kind of greed, but how do I know, exactly, when artists have crossed the line between making a reasonable living and shameless greed? I concede that there might be such a line, and what I'm asking is for you to tell me exactly where it is. This notion that some artists "don't need that much money" to "live a good life" is surely true, but those phrases are also far too vague for me--if I'm going to start judging the moral character of artists I don't personally know, I want to be absolutely certain that I'm on the right side of things. I need a firm definition, and I don't know what it is. Can you tell me? Is it when their net income exceeds the national average?

[tongue-tied]

All you need is love, they preached peace and love a lot. Fuck everytime ringo is on tv he'll say it a good ten or twelve times.

 

They also did a ripping version of "Money (That's What I Want)"

 

edit: already noted. Love is all you need, money can't buy it, but for everything else there's mastercard.

[jc4prez]

I totally agree with you that capitalism breeds a soulless kind of greed, but how do I know, exactly, when artists have crossed the line between making a reasonable living and shameless greed? I concede that there might be such a line, and what I'm asking is for you to tell me exactly where it is. This notion that some artists "don't need that much money" to "live a good life" is surely true, but those phrases are also far too vague for me--if I'm going to start judging the moral character of artists I don't personally know, I want to be absolutely certain that I'm on the right side of things. I need a firm definition, and I don't know what it is. Can you tell me? Is it when their net income exceeds the national average?

 

 

It's a good question but as we established before irrelevent. I don't care for juding the moral character of every artist (because like I said its the art thats rellevant) I do care when I hear someone I know talking about how they admire these people or if I myself am going to admire someone as an indivdual.

 

Instead of pointing the finger at others in society we need to start looking in the mirror and chaning the way it behaves. As metioned earlier in the sixties artists didn't sell out because finically it was benficial not to. We need to start having better values as a people in order to encourgage others to treat each other with respect. I'm not talking about flower power or some hippie mumbo jumbo; which would then influnce artists to be "nice" or "act the way we like" but adressing the fact that as a species we need to change paths so that people don't feel the need to manifest the material world for personal gain. Which is what these people are doing (musicans, entertainers,corporation). Making art and placing themselves in a higher social status, leaving their peers (other living things) to feed their wealth.

 

As a species I belive capitalism has brought on the desurction of our planet, mass violence and poverty. If we don't want to destory all of this beuitful art we have made were gonna have start changing things. And as I said before I belive capitalism is the root of this problem. And a microcosm of that problem is humans taking advantage of the system for self gain. Which is precisly what were really talking about here.

[ikol]

As a species I belive capitalism has brought on the desurction of our planet, mass violence and poverty.

 

The same could also be said for communism.

[jc4prez]

The same could also be said for communism.

 

not practiced correctly sure. I don't think of communism as an answer though (to go further into my belifs). I would hope as a speices we can one day rid ourselves of these current ideas and notions of world powers. Communism I like because it requires everyone to do their part and work together, if we could do that the infrustructre could collapse. I know you all probably think I'm a wacko but really there is an entire universe out there for us to discover why the fuck are we wasting time killing each other ?

 

ETA: like i said earlier I don't belive a country has practiced true communism, Cuba probably could if didn't have the embargo against them. Mao had great ideas but got a little violent for my liking.

[EL the Famous]

'The System' AKA 'The Man'...we chide our current administration for having put a face to things like terrorism when we do so ourselves to have someone to blame for all of our ills.

 

pffft. whatever. becoming a legitimate victim of something beyond your control versus laying down an making yourself one...that's a bigger problem than capitalism 100X over. the victim mentality and self-imposed oppression being perpetuated by way too may folks that do have legitimate control over their own well-being and destiny is scarier to me than the age old concept of supply and demand.

 

if i truly thought that people would equally carry their weight and in a communist system where everybody is supposedly equal would be abused any less than one of capitalism, i wouldn't call you naive and crazy...but, you're naive and crazy.

[jc4prez]

'The System' AKA 'The Man'...we chide our current administration for having put a face to things like terrorism when we do so ourselves to have someone to blame for all of our ills.

 

pffft. whatever. becoming a legitimate victim of something beyond your control versus laying down an making yourself one...that's a bigger problem than capitalism 100X over. the victim mentality and self-imposed oppression being perpetuated by way too may folks that do have legitimate control over their own well-being and destiny is scarier to me than the age old concept of supply and demand.

 

if i truly thought that people would equally carry their weight and in a communist system where everybody is supposedly equal would be abused any less than one of capitalism, i wouldn't call you naive and crazy...but, you're naive and crazy.

 

 

It's only a crazy notion because of the society we live in.

 

I agree many people don't stand up for themselves when they can, in this country. In many other countries they can't do anything about it; our capitlist system supports that (ex:child labor).

 

Capitlism has put many people in a bad spot they can't get out of and even if they can (musicans, atthletes are great examples) what about everyone. Why do you they have more of a justification for a better life, because our culture likes what they do? Thats insane. We don't even understand the space that we materilize how can we be in the place to say other humans have a right to better life over others?

[EL the Famous]

how can we be in the place to say other humans have a right to better life over others?

 

other humans have a right to better life over others. there. i can say it loud and proud.

 

do you think that someone who works their ass off at what they do doesn't have the right to live a btter life than someone who can and chooses not to? do you think the only people abusing capitalism are the ones who are making money for doing something? how about those making money for doing nothing?

 

you said earlier that instead of pointing the finger at others in society we need to start looking in the mirror...but you are pointing fingers and blaming 'the system' and/or the dark-cloaked villan 'capitalism'. i guess if people who could worry more about themselves would start doing so, we could have more time and resources to really help those who can't.

 

do what you want, but I haver a family to support and i'm not waiting around for somebody to level things out and take care of me. i truly think one can and should strive for and acheive a prosperous life w/out oppressing others and, actually, put themselves in a better place to help those who can't.

 

to say that everybody who has succeeded financially in life doesn't deserve it...it's an insult othose who've built themselves up from nothing by working for it.

[jc4prez]

other humans have a right to better life over others. there. i can say it loud and proud.

 

do you think that someone who works their ass off at what they do doesn't have the right to live a btter life than someone who can and chooses not to? do you think the only people abusing capitalism are the ones who are making money for doing something? how about those making money for doing nothing?

 

you said earlier that instead of pointing the finger at others in society we need to start looking in the mirror...but you are pointing fingers and blaming 'the system' and/or the dark-cloaked villan 'capitalism'. i guess if people who could worry more about themselves would start doing so, we could have more time and resources to really help those who can't.

 

do what you want, but I haver a family to support and i'm not waiting around for somebody to level things out and take care of me. i truly think one can and should strive for and acheive a prosperous life w/out oppressing others and, actually, put themselves in a better place to help those who can't.

 

to say that everybody who has succeeded financially in life doesn't deserve it...it's an insult othose who've built themselves up from nothing by working for it.

 

 

How do you expect peace with an attitude like that? I already stated that I sympthize with those who work to help their familes the system forces them to. In an ideal world (which is what we need to start focusing in on) you wouldn't have to work harder then anyone else. We should each be helping to carry the load. Its very easy to get caught up in the way thigns are "now" simply because thats the way they are you gotta realize there is a whole universe out there and what were doing now is worrying about "now" which is leading to destruction.

[EL the Famous]

see, i don't want or need your sympathy...i like working hard and having something to show for it. why should your view about how everybody live be what i want? somebody somewhere has to make a decision and i'd like to have the freedom to make my own. i don't want to live in a world where everybody is the same or, quite frankly, equal.

 

you preach about people living well above how they need to...but you are removing the fact that some people are just fine to live how they want to. one man wants a mansion and another is cool w/ a small cabin the woods. both are cool w/ coexistence...that's a pretty large pillar in the concept of peace.

 

you kept slagging off beltman's request for some scale of acceptable wealth, etc. as irrellevant...but it's not. somebody, somehwere...even in your equal society...has to determine what that definition of equality is or you can't argue that anybody is making too much and have 'sold out'. drop a tab and hope for the best, but we as a society could never come w/ a universal definition of that and have it be truly fair and equal to everybody.

[Good Old Neon]

other humans have a right to better life over others. there. i can say it loud and proud.

 

do you think that someone who works their ass off at what they do doesn't have the right to live a btter life than someone who can and chooses not to? do you think the only people abusing capitalism are the ones who are making money for doing something? how about those making money for doing nothing?

 

you said earlier that instead of pointing the finger at others in society we need to start looking in the mirror...but you are pointing fingers and blaming 'the system' and/or the dark-cloaked villan 'capitalism'. i guess if people who could worry more about themselves would start doing so, we could have more time and resources to really help those who can't.

 

do what you want, but I haver a family to support and i'm not waiting around for somebody to level things out and take care of me. i truly think one can and should strive for and acheive a prosperous life w/out oppressing others and, actually, put themselves in a better place to help those who can't.

 

to say that everybody who has succeeded financially in life doesn't deserve it...it's an insult othose who've built themselves up from nothing by working for it.

 

The unfortunate side effect of this system is people who work their asses off, teachers for example, receive very little by way of monetary reward, while musicians, actors and athletes are rewarded in a way that far exceeds any actual benefit they provide. A persons financial worth is in now way a barometer by which to measure their worth as a human being.

 

Millions of people work harder than you could ever, in your wildest nightmare, envision, yet get paid very little for their efforts.

 

Our current system is rigged, corrupt, unfair in a way that cannot simply be reduced to some people trying or working harder than others - is that a part of it, absolutely, but please, don

[jc4prez]

see, i don't want or need your sympathy...i like working hard and having something to show for it. why should your view about how everybody live be what i want? somebody somewhere has to make a decision and i'd like to have the freedom to make my own. i don't want to live in a world where everybody is the same or, quite frankly, equal.

 

you preach about people living well above how they need to...but you are removing the fact that some people are just fine to live how they want to. one man wants a mansion and another is cool w/ a small cabin the woods. both are cool w/ coexistence...that's a pretty large pillar in the concept of peace.

 

you kept slagging off beltman's request for some scale of acceptable wealth, etc. as irrellevant...but it's not. somebody, somehwere...even in your equal society...has to determine what that definition of equality is or you can't argue that anybody is making too much and have 'sold out'. drop a tab and hope for the best, but we as a society could never come w/ a universal definition of that and have it be truly fair and equal to everybody.

 

 

yeah but this free market has destoryed the face of our planet.

 

On top of that I'd to see you say that to someone dieing of aids in africa or starving to death in Bangledesh. I can gurantee their are people all over the world suffering that worked harder in a single day then you have in your whole life. You got lucky and were born here (or born into a soceity which gave you the means to get here). Your not thinking globbaly not even to metion cosmically. Your thinking about the quick turn around which is your enjoyment of life. Which hate to break to you is only temporary where as the human race will countine on.

[Beltmann]

If you can persuade all of humanity and all of future humanity to join us in thinking cosmically, I'm with ya.