Good Old Neon Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/11/911.charges/index.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I'm not a Bush supporter, but I see nothing wrong with this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 "Not much is known about the commissions system. The detainees will have lawyers, and they will be allowed to see at least some of the evidence against them." Should raise some hackles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I see nothing wrong with seeking whatever punishment the law allows. The problem with any case is now will we let our legal process actually function as it was meant to function? Or will we have secret trials with secret evidence? The other issue I have, and this is the cynic in me, is why now after five six years in captivity? Is the administration going to try and time the trials so that convictions are arrived at in late October? Everything this administration does is done with politics in mind. I wonder if Bush the christian has forgiven the 911 plotters? It would be an interesting question for someone to ask him. But he seems to only go for syncophantic interviewers, so i doubt he will ever face that question. If he has forgiven them it does not mean that civil punishement and civil accountability should nto occur, but it would reflect on the credibility of his christianity in my eyes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone doesnt solve murderous crimes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 I wonder if Bush the christian has forgiven the 911 plotters? It would be an interesting question for someone to ask him. But he seems to only go for syncophantic interviewers, so i doubt he will ever face that question. If he has forgiven them it does not mean that civil punishement and civil accountability should nto occur, but it would reflect on the credibility of his christianity in my eyes. That was sort of my point Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 torture em then kill em! GOD BLESS AMERICA! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I dont believe in the death penalty. Killing someone doesnt solve murderous crimes. I don't believe in it either, but it is the law of the land right now. I know as well as you and as well as the rest of the country that the death penalty has nothing to do with deterrance, it is all about revenge and biblical justice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 In a lecture on the Call for the Abolition of War http://www.idst.vt.edu/religious/pdfs/AbolitionofWar.pdf that he wrote with Enda McDonagh, Stanley Hauerwas said "I'm sure that George Bush is a sincere Christian--which goes to show how little sincerity has to do with Christianity." I'm not entirely sure what that means, but I like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 That was sort of my point Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I don't believe in it either, but it is the law of the land right now. I know as well as you and as well as the rest of the country that the death penalty has nothing to do with deterrance, it is all about revenge and biblical justice. Revenge will only leave everyone dead. Either way, as long as the death penalty exist, murderers will exist. It is the law, so whatever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Revenge will only leave everyone dead. Either way, as long as the death penalty exist, murderers will exist. It is the law, so whatever. take the death penalty away, and murderers will continue to exist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 take the death penalty away, and murderers will continue to exist. Exactly except death penalty or not Murder will always exist. If you take the bible litterally Murder existed even before law and punishment existed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 The detainees should at least get marginal rights to due process...which they're not going to get. Death penalty or not it's a damn shame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The detainees should at least get marginal rights to due process...which they're not going to get. Death penalty or not it's a damn shame. The men will be treated like members of the U.S. military during their judicial proceedings, he said. The proceedings will be dictated by the Military Commissions Act, which Congress passed to handle arrestees in the war on terror. The act requires that the detainees have access to lawyers as well as to any evidence presented against them. They also will have the right to appeal a guilty verdict, potentially through a civilian appeals court and perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court, according to the act. The government plans to make the proceedings as public as possible, said Brig Gen. Thomas Hartmann. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The men will be treated like members of the U.S. military during their judicial proceedings, he said. The proceedings will be dictated by the Military Commissions Act, which Congress passed to handle arrestees in the war on terror. The act requires that the detainees have access to lawyers as well as to any evidence presented against them. They also will have the right to appeal a guilty verdict, potentially through a civilian appeals court and perhaps the U.S. Supreme Court, according to the act. The government plans to make the proceedings as public as possible, said Brig Gen. Thomas Hartmann. Well, look, there's reason for skepticism here. They gave the detainees the right to challenge their incacerations. The defense lawyers in said challenges have said that the hearings are a sham--apparently the military will even pull them off if they're doing too good of a job. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=15783244 All Things Considered, October 30, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Well, look, there's reason for skepticism here. Agreed, there is always room for a healthy level of skepticism in everything. That said, i'm just posting from the same article that does state, whether you believe it or not, that there is supposed to be some level of due process allowed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gobias Industries Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Agreed, there is always room for a healthy level of skepticism in everything. That said, i'm just posting from the same article that does state, whether you believe it or not, that there is really not going to be to be some level of due process allowed. fixed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 fixed. I'm not sure how you fixed it. C- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 take the death penalty away, and murderers will continue to exist. It would be a much less occurence. By justifying death penalty, we justify killing. We are lowering ourselves to the same level as the killers themselves. Reversing the death penalty is a step in the right direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aricandover Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 It would be a much less occurence. By justifying death penalty, we justify killing. We are lowering ourselves to the same level as the killers themselves. Reversing the death penalty is a step in the right direction. I feel there's nothing wrong with the death penalty. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=144 I've read this site, and I think it's a just punishment for the crimes covered. Does having it deter such crimes? Probably not, but abolishing it isn't going to help matters either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
owl Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 It's arguable that life in an American prison would be far worse than death for these guys. I won't like the death penalty as long as there are innocent people on Death Row, but I don't see why we should turn these guys into martyrs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 I think the question of whether or not the death penalty is moral is sort of irrelevent until we can even find a system for administering it that is at all fair. The current system is so stacked against minorities and the poor that it would be comical if we were talking about something other than death. I'm not opposed to the death penalty inherently (although I do find it to be a bit creepy) but to me the morality of it is immaterial so long as the system is so screwed up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Perhaps prosecutors would not be so quick to seek the death penalty if they were held criminally responsible for the execution of a wrongly convicted prisoner Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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