Wilco and atheism

[Gobias Industries]

i've seen barbs lobbed at those of certain faith that we don't think for ourselves or question things enough. my faith is rooted in the polar opposite of that mindset. you can tell me the medical rationale of how a loved one died...but you could never adequately fill the void of why it had to happen. but, that's okay...that is what my faith provides me.

 

Precisely. I feel the same way too. Without a God (or Dude, if you so choose) everything becomes entirely random and chaotic. Everything loses its meaning, and life is then entirely meaningless, and I honestly can't (won't, whatever) accept that, because that means nothing I do matters, really, and that's fucking dumb, and I won't stand for it.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Precisely. I feel the same way too. Without a God (or Dude, if you so choose) everything becomes entirely random and chaotic. Everything loses its meaning, and life is then entirely meaningless, and I honestly can't (won't, whatever) accept that, because that means nothing I do matters, really, and that's fucking dumb, and I won't stand for it.

I don't believe in God and I don't feel that way at all.

[austrya]

I don't believe in God and I don't feel that way at all.

 

I say to each his (or her) own.

[MattZ]

What I was saying wasn't really to point out the pursuits so much as to point out that we all do pursue, and religion is a means of pursuing that "something," so I think its foolish to reject spirituality when we are all engaged in spiritual pursuits of some kind. I also was trying to say that atheism/agnosticism doesn't really exist, for the very reason that we are all striving for something.

 

This was very cool. I like it because it focuses on how we are all the same, as opposed to focusing on how we are all different. We are all striving for something. At the same time, that doesn't mean that atheism/agnosticism doesn't really exist, does it? Atheists can be spriritual, can't they? I don't think that is inconsistent. Or is it?

[EL the Famous]

mmmm, I do believe in God and I don't feel that way at all. then again, i don't really spend too much time worrying about the 'meaning' behind life...scientifically or spiritually. my faith has helped to provide possibilities to help me cope in certain instances where 'meaning' or, maybe, a 'meaning' that actually speaks to my emotions doesn't seem to exist.

[Good Old Neon]

Precisely. I feel the same way too. Without a God (or Dude, if you so choose) everything becomes entirely random and chaotic. Everything loses its meaning, and life is then entirely meaningless, and I honestly can't (won't, whatever) accept that, because that means nothing I do matters, really, and that's fucking dumb, and I won't stand for it.

 

The alternative to belief need not be nihilism. It

[Good Old Neon]

At the same time, that doesn't mean that atheism/agnosticism doesn't really exist, does it? Atheists can be spriritual, can't they? I don't think that is inconsistent. Or is it?

 

Exactly, I wonder who has a greater appreciation (call it spiritual if you will) for and of the beauty and inner workings of the universe, the atheist Stephen Hawking or the believer Pat Robertson?

[Spawn's dad]

why? are either of their experiences your own?

[Beltmann]

I believe the enduring power of art, and the human need to create and connect with art, is evidence that there is more to life and truth than empirical reality.

[MattZ]

I believe the enduring power of art, and the human need to create and connect with art, is evidence that there is more to life and truth than empirical reality.

 

That's the best evidence I've got too. And yet, I consider myself an atheist. Am I a hypocrite? I don't think so. (Or didn't think so).

[EL the Famous]

Atheists can be spriritual, can't they? I don't think that is inconsistent. Or is it?

 

good question. atheism is a disbelief in the existence of god or gods. spirituality relates to the nature of a spirit, soul and/or god. i'd say at face value, no. however, i think there is probably some grey area depending on how hardocre you are about it.

 

like j.nick, he's not only denied existence of god, butthe concept of spirit, soul and anything that cannot be ratified by science.

 

This is in no way an attack on you, but I love it when folks demand and insist that their lives have some sort of profound meaning, and then go on to waste them (yes, I know, that is a subjective value judgment) working at Wal-Mart and beer-farting into a Lazy Boy while watching scrambled porn for 50 years.

 

you think?! no love for the humble wal-mart greeter? we can't all be EMT's and/or writers willing to subject ourselves to waterboarding for 2 seconds. really though, a greater appreciation for and of the beauty and inner workings of the universe does not neccessarily make someone spiritual. nor, does being spiritual make appreciating said beauty and interworkings any less possible.

[Sir Stewart]

beer-farting into a Lazy Boy while watching scrambled porn

This belongs in the Nostalgia thread.

[MattZ]

good question. atheism is a disbelief in the existence of god or gods. spirituality relates to the nature of a spirit, soul and/or god. i'd say at face value, no. however, i think there is probably some grey area depending on how hardocre you are about it.

 

Yeah, I wonder. I guess I never really gave it all that much thought. I believe that we are all connected in some way. I believe that art and music are the best evidence for this. I don't think everything that can answered by science. And I dont think OPS is the only way to judge a hitter in baseball. There are intangibles. And yet I dont believe that someone/something or a God started everything, or created us in His image, etc.

[lost highway]

There is an outstanding essay by Albert Einstein regarding the relationship between science and religion. He wisely lays out, and separates, that religion and science are coming from two different directions, with two different goals. Using one to claim the other is false is misunderstanding the function of both.

[Good Old Neon]

why? are either of their experiences your own?

 

Well, sort of, one time, Stephen Hawking let me toot the horn on his chair

[uncool2pillow]

Most Buddhists do not acknowledge a personal god or diety, but believe in the eternity of the soul. I would think of them as athiests, but certainly quite spiritual.

[Good Old Neon]

I believe the enduring power of art, and the human need to create and connect with art, is evidence that there is more to life and truth than empirical reality.

 

For folks with an appreciation of art, but some people have no appreciation for it, nor can they create it.

 

Though I do agree that the creation and appreciation of art is pretty much the pinnacle of human achievement

[Gobias Industries]

The alternative to belief need not be nihilism. It’s unfortunate (and, based on your reply, dangerous, at least insofar as your mental health is concerned) that you’ve thrown all your eggs in one basket – here’s to hoping your faith, and thus your life, is never shattered.

 

This is in no way an attack on you, but I love it when folks demand and insist that their lives have some sort of profound meaning, and then go on to waste them (yes, I know, that is a subjective value judgment) working at Wal-Mart and beer-farting into a Lazy Boy while watching scrambled porn for 50 years.

 

Maybe I didn't really explain it enough, but I'm all for science, and you know, science obseletes religion in many aspects, but science is always going to be more of a "how" thing (hence I quoted EL) than a "why" thing. I'm not even going to call it religion, it's more of a faith thing, I have never belonged to any church or any sort of organized religion, and I think if it weren't for all the arcane bullshit they do our world would be a much better place (if I was tied to any sort of religion it would be Dudeist/Taoist/Buddhist). Really, more than anything else, music has been one of my safeholds for my entire existence (that's a different story entirely, though). I've only started inspecting this whole "faith" deal in the recent months by rifling through the Bible and etc., and I disagree with a lot of it, but I've found some things that I like.

 

The way it looks to me is that science provides a groundwork, but it has holes, which faith fills quite nicely. If science can explain something in some rational way, I'll take it, but science is limited in many respects. Namely, the whole issue of "why?" I don't claim to understand everything at all, but I see that as why faith develops in the first place.

 

And, for what it's worth, just because I've been developing a system of faith that gives my life some meaning doesn't mean I should be disqualified from a decent job or living.

[Central Scrutinizer]

good question. atheism is a disbelief in the existence of god or gods. spirituality relates to the nature of a spirit, soul and/or god. i'd say at face value, no. however, i think there is probably some grey area depending on how hardocre you are about it.

 

like j.nick, he's not only denied existence of god, butthe concept of spirit, soul and anything that cannot be ratified by science.

 

 

 

you think?! no love for the humble wal-mart greeter? we can't all be EMT's and/or writers willing to subject ourselves to waterboarding for 2 seconds. really though, a greater appreciation for and of the beauty and inner workings of the universe does not neccessarily make someone spiritual. nor, does being spiritual make appreciating said beauty and interworkings any less possible.

I think his point is that it can all be boiled down to chemicals and synapses. Our sense of spirit is our internal VCR queueing up "Heaven's Gate."

 

It just seems rather pointless to me that you can say the greatest works of art, the deepest throughts and inspirations are the product of zoological accidents, that the appreciation of the depth and development of these accidents can be pursued intellectually. That idea seems to fall in upon itself. There should be no pursuit of art because it is at its face value, accidents and false.

 

There is an outstanding essay by Albert Einstein regarding the relationship between science and religion. He wisely lays out, and separates, that religion and science are coming from two different directions, with two different goals. Using one to claim the other is false is misunderstanding the function of both.

Amen!

[Spawn's dad]

Most Buddhists do not acknowledge a personal god or diety, but believe in the eternity of the soul

 

 

umm no they don't

[Central Scrutinizer]

Well, sort of, one time, Stephen Hawking let me toot the horn on his chair

[lost highway]

Most Buddhists do not acknowledge a personal god or diety, but believe in the eternity of the soul. I would think of them as athiests, but certainly quite spiritual.

 

Ah, but not necessarily this either. There are quite a bit of significant differences from sect to sect. The Therevada for example believe not in reincarnation but in rebirth. I will go as far as to say that rebirth is intended to mean something 'non-personal' unlike reincarnation.

 

Secondly, the Tibetan Buddhists especially pay heed to a wide pantheon of Gods and supernatural figures, other sects contain stories, scriptures and folklore containing magical figures, except that I would project they are not regarded as literally as a Christian regards Christ, or a Hindu regards Krsna.

 

Most importantly, Buddhists in general have little compatibility with our western concept of Atheism. This is because, Atheism as a whole seems to place all of its energy into disproving God. Whereas in general a Buddhists priorities lie in something much more immediate and pressing then the experience of, or the negation of God. Instead a Buddhist is simply more invested in their own personal practice, behaving morally and the annihilation of the self.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Most Buddhists do not acknowledge a personal god or diety, but believe in the eternity of the soul. I would think of them as athiests, but certainly quite spiritual.

The soul precedes/succeeds the corporal body? Does the Buddist look at others as having souls? Do they run parallel or are they part of a communal eternity?

[uncool2pillow]

 

umm no they don't

Where am I wrong? Gods or eternity of the soul? There are, to my understanding Buddhists who worship gods, but most do not. Most Buddhists believe in reincarnation or a version of what Hindus call Nirvana or Moksha.

 

edit: Never mind plenty of replies in the meantime to clarify.

[Good Old Neon]

good question. atheism is a disbelief in the existence of god or gods. spirituality relates to the nature of a spirit, soul and/or god. i'd say at face value, no. however, i think there is probably some grey area depending on how hardocre you are about it.

 

like j.nick, he's not only denied existence of god, butthe concept of spirit, soul and anything that cannot be ratified by science.

 

 

 

you think?! no love for the humble wal-mart greeter? we can't all be EMT's and/or writers willing to subject ourselves to waterboarding for 2 seconds. really though, a greater appreciation for and of the beauty and inner workings of the universe does not neccessarily make someone spiritual. nor, does being spiritual make appreciating said beauty and interworkings any less possible.

 

100% wrong