MLB 2008-09 Hot Stove League

[MrRain422]

It takes a whole lot more skill to play second base than first. Not really sure where the dispute is.

[Guest Jules]

It takes a whole lot more skill to play second base than first. Not really sure where the dispute is.

the dispute lies somewhere in that you're wrong.

[MattZ]

I'm with Jules.

[Guest Jules]

I'm with Jules.

it's a good place to be, Matt.

[MattZ]

it's a good place to be, Matt.

 

It kinda feels nice.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

How about this: first basemen with a high OPS (say, higher than .800) are much more common than second baseman with the same. Also, players with declining defensive skills are often relegated to first base and that's often the last stop before DH. No one ever says "He's a bad fielder, let's hide him at second base."

[Guest Jules]

No one ever says "He's a bad fielder, let's hide him at second base."

Actually, they do say that.

[bjorn_skurj]

A good first baseman is a big plus, but first base and right field are, according to traditional baseball theory, the spots you put the guys who are not great fielders but can hit.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Actually, they do say that.

 

Maybe for a bad shortstop or third baseman or centerfielder. But you wouldn't hide a bad first baseman at second base.

[MattZ]

How about this: first basemen with a high OPS (say, higher than .800) are much more common than second baseman with the same. Also, players with declining defensive skills are often relegated to first base and that's often the last stop before DH. No one ever says "He's a bad fielder, let's hide him at second base."

 

Sure they do. The Mets stuck Jeff Kent at 2b.

And just because teams are willing to put shitty players at 1b isn't proof that it's a good idea. Teams also relied on BA instead of OBP or OPS when figuring out who should hit leadoff.

[Guest Jules]

A good first baseman is a big plus, but first base and right field are, according to traditional baseball theory, the spots you put the guys who are not great fielders but can hit.

I'm glad we can agree on this, Bjorn.

 

Maybe for a bad shortstop or third baseman or centerfielder. But you wouldn't hide a bad first baseman at second base.

So, you agree with me?

[MrRain422]

How does acknowledgement that a poor shortstop or thirdbaseman might get moved to second base agreement that second base is an easier position than first base? All it shows is that he believes second base is an easier position than third base or shortstop.

 

Give me one example, please, of a player being moved from first base to second base because of lack of defensive skills, and not to make room in the line up for someone else who is an even worse fielder who needs to play first base.

[bobbob1313]

Woah. This is like a bit, right?

[MrRain422]

It has to be a bit.

[bobbob1313]

I think its a bit.

[MrRain422]

I'd be surprised if it's not a bit.

[MattZ]

I would never suggest that we look to the Mets as an example of anything other than futility, but as I said, the Mets stuck Jeff Kent at 2b when they had nowhere to put him because they thought he could "learn" the position quickly.

 

Then they did the same thing with Jose Reyes when Kaz Matsui was brought in. And then swapped them when it didn't work out.

 

So, the Mets clearly think 2b can be learned on the job. I suppose this may cut against my argument, but there certainly is a precedent for teams having little regard for the difficult of 2b. And it was not done at the expense of 1b.

 

I'd take Keith Hernandez with a scrub at 2b over Mo Vaughn at 1b with a gold glove at 2b.

[PigSooie]

[Guest Jules]

All I said was 2nd base is not a "much more difficult" position than 1st. Not easier.

 

Hey, I realize 2nd base is generally considered a defensive position. You have to have good range, quick hands, a lot of responsibility, etc. I just took exception to the notion that it is so much more difficult than 1st base, and that it would even be a consideration in comparing the value of Pedrioa to Youkilis. That is all.

[MrRain422]

The moved Kent to second base from third base, which is an even harder position.

[Guest Jules]

The moved Kent to second base from third base, which is an even harder position.

not really

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

I'd take Keith Hernandez with a scrub at 2b over Mo Vaughn at 1b with a gold glove at 2b.

Would you rather have Jeff Kent playing 1b or Mo Vaughn playing 2b? Howzbout that?

[MrRain422]

What if the gold glover at second base is also an awesome hitter?

[Guest Jules]

I wish you guys didn't take my initial comment/argument and change it into a completely different argument.

[bjorn_skurj]

Jeff Kent donated $15K to the anti-gay marriage thing in California.