Mitch Mitchell RIP

[lamradio]

I still can't believe he was only 61... But Rock N Roll is hard on the body..

[Analogman]

I paid less than $10 for my used copy. I think it's quite good. It's not necessarily beautiful or stoned, but it is above average light-psych with some English folk and SanFrancisco touches.

 

 

 

 

I gotta go with the Experience all the way. RIP Mitch!

 

I meant - the later period stuff with Mitch. Although, Buddy is the man for the Band of Gypsies material.

[jff]

[futureman]

this is a shocker

we should always remember to open our ears and listen past Hendrix's playing and recall that Mitchell was, then and forever, the backbone of the experience

solo - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jiMu_ZSbKn4&...feature=related

[jff]

this is a shocker

we should always remember to open our ears and listen past Hendrix's playing and recall that Mitchell was, then and forever, the backbone of the experience

solo - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jiMu_ZSbKn4&...feature=related

 

He (and a handful of his contemporaries) also deserves way more credit for jazz-rock than Miles Davis.

 

Sorry Miles, but you were at least two years behind on that one.

[LouieB]

He (and a handful of his contemporaries) also deserves way more credit for jazz-rock than Miles Davis.

 

Sorry Miles, but you were at least two years behind on that one.

Not sure that a big old drum solo behind Jimi constitutes jazz-rock. There had been drum solos in rock (and jazz) for years before this.

 

Miles was doing this at the same time actually - In a Silent Way 1969. Many rock and blues musicians have had a background in jazz; that is not that unique.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

BBC Obit

 

Mitchell brought the concept of drums as a lead instrument from jazz, to set a new trend in rock music.

 

Maybe it's more about that he took what he learned from jazz drumming and blended that in with the innovative work of Hendrix.

[LouieB]

Maybe it's more about that he took what he learned from jazz drumming and blended that in with the innovative work of Hendrix.

That I buy.....you simply can't dismiss Miles that easily.

 

As did John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce and many other British musicians....(and American ones as well...)

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Another sad trip that I have not yet seen mentioned - Mitch, Noel, Billy, and Buddy all had their legal battles with the Hendrix estate over the past decade or so. Not to long before Noel died, he was actually selling his Hendrix related memorabilia on Ebay. Also - the white Stratocaster that the Hard Rock Cafe owns came from Mitch - it was the one Hendrix used at Woodstock.

[mountain bed]

As much as Mitch incorporated jazz drumming into rock music you could just as easily say someone like Tony Williams incorporated rock drumming into jazz.

 

Fusion, baby.

[LouieB]

Another sad trip that I have not yet seen mentioned - Mitch, Noel, Billy, and Buddy all had their legal battles with the Hendrix estate over the past decade or so. Not to long before Noel died, he was actually selling his Hendrix related memorabilia on Ebay. Also - the white Stratocaster that the Hard Rock Cafe owns came from Mitch - it was the one Hendrix used at Woodstock.

That really is a drag, since there was more than enough money to keep everyone happy throughout their lives. Hendrix records still sell really well I am sure.

 

(Reading Wikipedia I noticed that Mitch didn't pass the audition to get into Wings.)

 

As much as Mitch incorporated jazz drumming into rock music you could just as easily say someone like Tony Williams incorporated rock drumming into jazz.

 

Fusion, baby.

Right...it was a very exciting time. Lots of folks were trying lots of crazy shit that hadn't been tried before and pissing alot of fans off.

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

Speaking of Noel, he tried out for the Stones after Bill left.

 

According to Eddie Kramer's book Hendrix: Setting the Record Straight, Michael Jeffery, Hendrix's manager, an innovator in getting Hendrix promoted and established, relegated both Mitch Mitchell and Noel Redding to the status of mere paid employees without an ownership share in future revenues. This limited their earnings to a very low rate and led to Mitchell and Redding being largely excluded from sharing in future revenues generated from their work with The Jimi Hendrix Experience. This arrangement pressured Mitchell in the mid-1970s to sell a prized Hendrix guitar. In addition, he sold his small legal claim to future Hendrix record sales for a sum reported to be in the range of $200,000

 

I have that book - it is a good read.

[LouieB]

It's sad really isn't it. Managers and promoters have been ripping off musicians for ages.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

It's sad really isn't it. Managers and promoters have been ripping off musicians for ages.

 

LouieB

 

Yes, but the Hendrix Estate also had the ability to right past wrongs. I have no idea if they did or didn't in this case, though. I would guess not if that blurb is to be taken at its word.

[mountain bed]

There should be a whole book devoted to Mike Jeffrey. Maybe there already is, I don't know. But talk about a shady character...

[Analogman]

It's sad really isn't it. Managers and promoters have been ripping off musicians for ages.

 

LouieB

 

Michael Jeffery was a shady dude - reported to have been killed in a plane crash. This thread reminds me that I need to finish my Hendrix collection some day.

 

Are You Experienced

Axis: Bold as Love

Electric Ladyland

Band of Gypsys

Smash Hits

The Cry of Love

Rainbow Bridge

War Heroes

Loose Ends

Crash Landing

Midnight Lightning

Nine to the Universe (don't have)

Boxset

Isle of Wight

Hendrix in the West

More Experience

The Jimi Hendrix Concerts

Jimi Plays Monterey

Johnny B. Goode (don't have)

Band of Gypsys 2 (don't have)

Live at Winterland

Woodstock

Live at the Fillmore East

Blue Wild Angel: Live at the Isle of Wight

Sound Track Recordings from the Film Jimi Hendrix

Jimi Plays Berkeley

The Essential Jimi Hendrix

The Essential Jimi Hendrix Volume Two

Lifelines: The Jimi Hendrix Story

Stages (I have one disc - Atlanta 1970)

Blues

First Rays of the New Rising Sun

South Saturn Delta

BBC Sessions

Voodoo Child: The Jimi Hendrix Collection

Red House: Variations on A Theme (don't have)

 

 

 

 

Yes, but the Hendrix Estate also had the ability to right past wrongs. I have no idea if they did or didn't in this case, though. I would guess not if that blurb is to be taken at its word.

 

I think there was some settlement - I recall reading that somewhere.

[jff]

Not sure that a big old drum solo behind Jimi constitutes jazz-rock. There had been drum solos in rock (and jazz) for years before this.

 

Miles was doing this at the same time actually - In a Silent Way 1969. Many rock and blues musicians have had a background in jazz; that is not that unique.

 

LouieB

 

Mitch was playing jazz drums (i'm not talking about solos) with Hendrix in 1966. That predates Miles bringing rock into his music.

 

EDIT: I should say 1967 and not '66, since "Third Stone From the Sun" is the most obvious example of Mitch's jazz drumming from the first Experience album, which was mostly recorded and released in '67. That's still two years before Miles incorporated rock into his music...I don't mean to take anything away from, or dismiss Miles in any way. I love him, I just think he just get's more credit than is due when it comes to "fusion" music.

 

 

As much as Mitch incorporated jazz drumming into rock music you could just as easily say someone like Tony Williams incorporated rock drumming into jazz.

 

Fusion, baby.

 

He did. After Mitch.

[Analogman]

From another message board I am on:

 

Jimi Hendrix' nickname for Mitchell was 'queen bee' - 'busyness' was a common criticism of Mitch Mitchell's playing style.... and as eligit notes, one of his main, contemporary influences was Elvin Jones (of John Coltrane's quartet). He was certainly competent in jazz styles & rhythms, but perhaps not on the level of, let's say, a Ginger Baker to subsume them completely into his own unique approach. Still, he was along with Baker the most influential power trio drummer of the '60s. Listen to "Third Stone From The Sun" ... that is the blueprint for jazz-rock fusion.

[LouieB]

Mitch was playing jazz drums (i'm not talking about solos) with Hendrix in 1966. That predates Miles bringing rock into his music.

Bringing jazz drumming into rock hardly constitutes jazz rock. Many musicians had jazz backgrounds and joined rock bands. We can argue about this until the cows come home, but whole legions of British musicians had backgrounds in trad jazz, swing and even be-bop before they became rock musicians. (Americians too for that matter...) If anything Jimi Hendrix was more of a blues musician and there has been crossover between blues and jazz since the beginning of both genres. (Heck rock and roll started out as an offshoot of jazz if you want to get technical, with jump blues and other types of music being the precursor to rock and roll during the early 50s.) Mitch was essentially hired to play in a blues rock group if we want to split hairs here, not a jazz rock group. In the mid 60s cross polination was very common, even expected.

 

Ginger Baker was doing the same thing with Cream actually. In fact Ginger was an established and well respected jazz drummer when he joined Cream in 1966. The Experience was modeled on Cream.

 

edit- I must be losing my mind; one of the most famous and proficient of all the Brit jazz to rock drummers was Charlie Watts who pre-dated both Ginger and Mitch. Nearly every British drummer we can name from the British Invasion on (Ringo Starr included) had a background in jazz, blues, or R&B,or a combo of all three because that was what there was to play at that time.

 

LouieB

[jff]

Bringing jazz drumming into rock hardly constitutes jazz rock.

LouieB

Of course it does. EDIT: To be more clear, I should say that Mitch bringing jazz rhythms into that particular group, with a guitarist who clearly had a harmonic sensibility approaching, if not equal to that of a jazz guitarist, does constitute jazz-rock. Had Mitch been in a band with someone who just played root-five power chords, then no, it probably would not constitute jazz-rock.END EDIT.

 

The opposite, bringing rock elements (i.e. the beat) into jazz, is basically the definition of jazz-rock fusion.

 

Fusion guys wanted rock energy with jazz harmony. Hendrix and Cream (though I think 3rd Stone is a better example than anything Cream recorded) beat them to it.

[LouieB]

Of course it does.

 

The opposite, bringing rock elements (i.e. the beat) into jazz, is basically the definition of jazz-rock fusion.

 

Fusion guys wanted rock energy with jazz harmony. Hendrix and Cream (though I think 3rd Stone is a better example than anything Cream recorded) beat them to it.

Of course what does?? Cream and Hendrix were not jazz bands, they were rock bands with members who had jazz background. I don't think that is the same as jazz bands bringing in rock elements which is fusion. If that is the case then the Rolling Stones and the Beatles did in fact beat Miles to the punch (and Hendrix and Cream and the rest.). But in fact Miles brought electronic instrumentation into jazz creating fusion. There were jazz players in rock and roll bands long before the British Invasion; in the US having jazz players in rock and roll bands was sort of standard also. I really think we are mixing apples and oranges here.

 

Honestly if you want to believe that the Experience was the first jazz fusion band so be it, I can't convince you otherwise, but I have never heard Jimi described as a jazz musician.

 

LouieB

[jff]

Of course what does?? Cream and Hendrix were not jazz bands, they were rock bands with members who had jazz background. I don't think that is the same as jazz bands bringing in rock elements which is fusion. If that is the case then the Rolling Stones and the Beatles did in fact beat Miles to the punch (and Hendrix and Cream and the rest.). But in fact Miles brought electronic instrumentation into jazz creating fusion. There were jazz players in rock and roll bands long before the British Invasion; in the US having jazz players in rock and roll bands was sort of standard also. I really think we are mixing apples and oranges here.

 

Honestly if you want to believe that the Experience was the first jazz fusion band so be it, I can't convince you otherwise, but I have never heard Jimi described as a jazz musician.

 

LouieB

Please note the major edit I made in my post. I probably should have made a new post rather than editing.

 

I don't think the Experience was, or set out to be, the first jazz fusion band. I do think they created a new and very heavily and obviously jazz inflected sound which inspired others to explore similar territory, eventually winding up with Miles stating his intentions to do something new, which wasn't really new at all. He was just the first to say what he was up to, which somehow got translated through the course of history into Miles inventing a new genre.

[LouieB]

Please note the major edit I made in my post. I probably should have made a new post rather than editing.

 

I don't think the Experience was, or set out to be, the first jazz fusion band. I do think they created a new and very heavily and obviously jazz inflected sound which inspired others to explore similar territory, eventually winding up with Miles stating his intentions to do something new, which wasn't really new at all. He was just the first to say what he was up to, which somehow got translated through the course of history into Miles inventing a new genre.

Yea..okay that I can agree with. Hendrix was a tremendous influence Miles, no doubt.

 

LouieB

[mfwahl]

Gil Evans' Hendrix record is pretty tits.

[mountain bed]

Please note the major edit I made in my post. I probably should have made a new post rather than editing.

 

I don't think the Experience was, or set out to be, the first jazz fusion band. I do think they created a new and very heavily and obviously jazz inflected sound which inspired others to explore similar territory, eventually winding up with Miles stating his intentions to do something new, which wasn't really new at all. He was just the first to say what he was up to, which somehow got translated through the course of history into Miles inventing a new genre.

When the Experience was doing their first gigs in and around London, many of the shows were with The Pink Floyd on the bill as well. I haven't heard a great deal of pre-Experience Jimi but from what I have heard it's pretty close to what Buddy Guy was doing at the time. My point being I wonder how much of an influence Syd and the Floyd had (on Jimi) regarding the concept of sound as SOUND. As limited as PF was in terms of technical proficiency their work with feedback and noise elements was pretty groundbreaking - McCartney has said as much. And the crowds he was playing to (UFO Club, etc) were VERY forgiving, to say the least.