Analogman Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 And now available as a bit torrent. The internets...wonderful thing. And various Bootleg blogs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 You seem to be a pretty knowledgable and passionate Springsteen fan. Thoughts on "Outlaw Pete"? ...Me? ...Really? Well, I tend to see it as an analogy for the American experience over the last 4 to 6 years. The idea that one cannot escape the consequences of their past actions resonates in much of Bruce's work. We are the sum of our experiences, and we can never escape them. This one has some absurd story elements and follows the bounds of a traditional tragedy. It's a return to the overblown, operatic stylings that he featured and was known for up until Darkeness on the Edge of Town (Lost in the Flood, Incident on 57th Street, New York City Serenade, Jungleland). Rife with symbolism, weighty arrangments and...well...corny. These were once a hallmarks of a great Springsteen song. We are simply a lot more jaded these days. The sharing of the chord progression with the KISS song is a distraction only if one is listening for it and obsessively looking for a point of contention. The verse isn't wherethe emphasis of this story lies. "Can you hear me?"...that's what the story leads to. He probably revels in this sort of thing...making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I think the underlying problem is that this a happy Bruce album. And if history holds true, his fair weather fans will reject it (see the reception given to Human Touch and Lucky Town). For me, this record has several songs that rank with the best Bruce has ever written: Kingdon of Days, The Last Carnival, The Wrestler. However, I find that what one gets of a Bruce record is heavily influenced by what one brings to the table. We all attempt to load our own baggage onto the artist's train, moreso with Bruce's fans. Bruce sends missives from his life and about his feelings (Political and personal) and he invites us along. Magic was a big 'P' political record. An examination of what happens when what we believe and what we believe in are challenged. Working on a Dream is a small 'p' political record. The politics of every day life...growing old, still loving your wife, losing friends. Both stand on their own merits. Bruce was a hell of a lot less clumbsy than many artists in his indictment of George Bush's America. We will still be able to listen to Your Own Worst Enemy, Devil's Arcade, and Long Walk Home in three years without rolling our eyes. Can you say the same for Neil Young's anti-war effort? And in contrast, Bruce has an ability to look at his current life and look back with becoming maudlin or sappy. This record will NOT resonate with many people. I won't be arrogant and tell those who dont' like it that they don't get it; that you have had to live a bit to get it. But, truth be told, Bruce has always been artist that you have get. He's not everybody's cup of tea. He is overblown. He does harken back to Roy Orbison and Phil Spector. But he is as American an artist as has ever lived. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dagwave Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ...Me? ...Really? Well, I tend to see it as an analogy for the American experience over the last 4 to 6 years. The idea that one cannot escape the consequences of their past actions resonates in much of Bruce's work. We are the sum of our experiences, and we can never escape them. This one has some absurd story elements and follows the bounds of a traditional tragedy. It's a return to the overblown, operatic stylings that he featured and was known for up until Darkeness on the Edge of Town (Lost in the Flood, Incident on 57th Street, New York City Serenade, Jungleland). Rife with symbolism, weighty arrangments and...well...corny. These were once a hallmarks of a great Springsteen song. We are simply a lot more jaded these days. The sharing of the chord progression with the KISS song is a distraction only if one is listening for it and obsessively looking for a point of contention. The verse isn't wherethe emphasis of this story lies. "Can you hear me?"...that's what the story leads to. He probably revels in this sort of thing...making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I think the underlying problem is that this a happy Bruce album. And if history holds true, his fair weather fans will reject it (see the reception given to Human Touch and Lucky Town). For me, this record has several songs that rank with the best Bruce has ever written: Kingdon of Days, The Last Carnival, The Wrestler. However, I find that what one gets of a Bruce record is heavily influenced by what one brings to the table. We all attempt to load our own baggage onto the artist's train, moreso with Bruce's fans. Bruce sends missives from his life and about his feelings (Political and personal) and he invites us along. Magic was a big 'P' political record. An examination of what happens when what we believe and what we believe in are challenged. Working on a Dream is a small 'p' political record. The politics of every day life...growing old, still loving your wife, losing friends. Both stand on their own merits. Bruce was a hell of a lot less clumbsy than many artists in his indictment of George Bush's America. We will still be able to listen to Your Own Worst Enemy, Devil's Arcade, and Long Walk Home in three years without rolling our eyes. Can you say the same for Neil Young's anti-war effort? And in contrast, Bruce has an ability to look at his current life and look back with becoming maudlin or sappy. This record will NOT resonate with many people. I won't be arrogant and tell those who dont' like it that they don't get it; that you have had to live a bit to get it. But, truth be told, Bruce has always been artist that you have get. He's not everybody's cup of tea. He is overblown. He does harken back to Roy Orbison and Phil Spector. But he is as American an artist as has ever lived. good post. food for thought! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CortezTheKiller Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 ...Me? ...Really? Well, I tend to see it as an analogy for the American experience over the last 4 to 6 years. The idea that one cannot escape the consequences of their past actions resonates in much of Bruce's work. Agreed. We are the sum of our experiences, and we can never escape them. This one has some absurd story elements and follows the bounds of a traditional tragedy. It's a return to the overblown, operatic stylings that he featured and was known for up until Darkeness on the Edge of Town (Lost in the Flood, Incident on 57th Street, New York City Serenade, Jungleland). Rife with symbolism, weighty arrangments and...well...corny. These were once a hallmarks of a great Springsteen song. We are simply a lot more jaded these days. Not sure I agree 100% with you here. Some very good and valid points. I have a hard time putting this song into some of the categories you mention. The sharing of the chord progression with the KISS song is a distraction only if one is listening for it and obsessively looking for a point of contention. Hit me upside the head like a ton of bricks. The verse isn't wherethe emphasis of this story lies. "Can you hear me?"...that's what the story leads to. He probably revels in this sort of thing...making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I think the underlying problem is that this a happy Bruce album. And if history holds true, his fair weather fans will reject it (see the reception given to Human Touch and Lucky Town). I like it. I don't love it, but I do like it. For me, this record has several songs that rank with the best Bruce has ever written: Kingdon of Days, The Last Carnival, The Wrestler. Agree about the last 2 songs. However, I find that what one gets of a Bruce record is heavily influenced by what one brings to the table. We all attempt to load our own baggage onto the artist's train, moreso with Bruce's fans. Bruce sends missives from his life and about his feelings (Political and personal) and he invites us along. 100% correct. Magic was a big 'P' political record. An examination of what happens when what we believe and what we believe in are challenged. Working on a Dream is a small 'p' political record. The politics of every day life...growing old, still loving your wife, losing friends. I like the big 'P' more. My own personal feeling. Both stand on their own merits. Agree. Bruce was a hell of a lot less clumbsy than many artists in his indictment of George Bush's America. We will still be able to listen to Your Own Worst Enemy, Devil's Arcade, and Long Walk Home in three years without rolling our eyes. Can you say the same for Neil Young's anti-war effort? Great point. And in contrast, Bruce has an ability to look at his current life and look back with becoming maudlin or sappy. This record will NOT resonate with many people. I won't be arrogant and tell those who dont' like it that they don't get it; that you have had to live a bit to get it. But, truth be told, Bruce has always been artist that you have get. He's not everybody's cup of tea. He is overblown. He does harken back to Roy Orbison and Phil Spector. But he is as American an artist as has ever lived.Very well-written with some great things to think about. I sensed you had some strong, relevant, and valid thoughts on Bruce, but I never expected something like this. Thanks for the response. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Very well-written with some great things to think about. I sensed you had some strong, relevant, and valid thoughts on Bruce, but I never expected something like this. Thanks for the response. I enjoy posting about Springsteen here because I find Wilco fans to be more sophisticated than followers of other bands. There isn't the hero worship combat with the ridicule everything he does mentality that is found on the Usenet boards. I have rather strong feelings about Springsteen's music because he was the first MATURE artist that I got (meaning understood in that visceral sense. Maybe I should say I grok). I discovered him in 1973-74 at the cusp of my discovery of music. He's like an old friend I have never met. I mark milestones in my life by his record releases. I graduated from College the year Nebraska came out. I got married in 1985 and we saw a Springsteen show together. My daughter was born about the time HT/LT were released, D-man was born after the Ghost of Tom Joad Tour, etc. He has a reverence for what has come before musically and assimilates the past into his present and future. And I am thrilled to death that my son (I refer to him here as D-Man) shares my obsession. I feel passionately about a couple of artists: Springsteen, Wilco and to a lesser degree Neil Young, and Dylan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 DCM your analysis goes way beyond the "it's got a good beat we can dance to it" reviews from American Bandstand. We've come a long way in how we listen to music and with what we expect from the performers we like. Very insightful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I am very excited about the anniversary release of DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN. This is one record in Bruce's catalogue that definitely needs remastering. The production of that record has little depth and the drums have no presence. I know there are a number of FM radio broadcasts that are available for the 1978 tour. In addition, a number of shows were recorded for the possible release of a live album in 1979. This was an outrageously productive period for Springsteen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobfrombob Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 They certainly have the masters to do a DVD of the Phoenix show. There are rumours of video of the Roxy shows, or some of them anyway.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Darkness On The Edge Of Town is probably my favorite Bruce album. I am particularly fond of the song Racing in the Street. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Darkness On The Edge Of Town is probably my favorite Bruce album. I am particularly fond of the song Racing in the Street. Bruce would have been much better served if he had actually had a producer on that record. Jon Landau has had to have ruined more records than any producer ever. ( I know...that is hyperbole in the extreme. But DotEoT, The River and Born in the USA are poorly produced records.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Bruce would have been much better served if he had actually had a producer on that record. Jon Landau has had to have ruined more records than any producer ever. ( I know...that is hyperbole in the extreme. But DotEoT, The River and Born in the USA are poorly produced records.) The sound is quite muddy - that's for sure. We've had this discussion before, but all of his early albums need re-mastered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The sound is quite muddy - that's for sure. We've had this discussion before, but all of his early albums need re-mastered. I know... But I am most heartened by his coming Remastering of Darkness. This bodes very well for the future. Although I don't know what can be done for The River...that is one sprawling record...a classic, but a mess. Not in its scizophrenic mix of styles...that is part of its charm...akin to the White Album. I am talking about the sloppily recorded live takes in the studio. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 True - nothing can be done about that. I think I read somewhere that Streets of Fire was a one take not even learned by the band song. I like that sort of thing - most of the time. I'd say the problem with The River is that it's sounds too "tinny" or bright. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Darkness On The Edge Of Town is probably my favorite Bruce album. I am particularly fond of the song Racing in the Street. My favorite also. Our band does Adam Raised a Cain in fact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CortezTheKiller Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Darkness On The Edge Of Town is probably my favorite Bruce album. I am particularly fond of the song Racing in the Street. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 This one also - I like the car songs: This is one of my favorite Bruce lines: I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car I think Mr. Crow is onto something here: However, I find that what one gets of a Bruce record is heavily influenced by what one brings to the table. We all attempt to load our own baggage onto the artist's train, moreso with Bruce's fans. Bruce sends missives from his life and about his feelings (Political and personal) and he invites us along. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CortezTheKiller Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I know... But I am most heartened by his coming Remastering of Darkness. This bodes very well for the future. Although I don't know what can be done for The River...that is one sprawling record...a classic, but a mess. Not in its scizophrenic mix of styles...that is part of its charm...akin to the White Album. I am talking about the sloppily recorded live takes in the studio.Listening to the CD of The River is fucking brutal. That was my first experience with the album in 1990. I recently picked up a used copy on vinyl. It's really amazing how different the experience is. I used to be one of those people that thought all that vinyl vs. CD talk was elitist bullshit. I was mistaken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think one of the last used records I ever bought was The River - it was missing one of the albums, but, I bought it anyway. I think I have an original pressing of Born To Run, Darkness On The Edge Of Town, and Nebraska (which was actually the first Bruce album I ever got). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I think Mr. Crow is onto something here: Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about...MR. CROW...lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Listening to the CD of The River is fucking brutal. That was my first experience with the album in 1990. I recently picked up a used copy on vinyl. It's really amazing how different the experience is. I used to be one of those people that thought all that vinyl vs. CD talk was elitist bullshit. I was mistaken. The River ... that is one m-fer of a record. A real melange of moods, styles, tones and voicings. It is akin to the White Album in its varied styles and approaches...but they were all Bruce songs. He goes from the silliness of the frat rocker Sherry Darling to the starkness of Drive all Night. Personally, I was drawn in by the opening bars of The Ties that Bind. This album could have been as huge as Born in the USA, but it was blown off course with the choice of the second single. Fade Away was a terrible choice for a second single. It effectively killed all the momentum that Hungry Heart had built on AM radio and probably snuffed out the chance for mega sales. The Ties that Bind, Cadillac Ranch, The River, Independence Day...all would have been wonderful AM radio singles. And in the early 80's hit singles meant more album sales. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've always found it funny that Hungry Heart was written for The Ramones. For me it's about The River, Stolen Car, Independence Day, and The Price You Pay. Pretty heavy stuff. Side one 1. "The Ties That Bind" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The B-sides and outtakes from "The River" are classics in their own right. "Held Up Without A Gun," is as close to punk as the E Street Band ever got. Just a ferocious song. And though somewhat lightweight I really love "Be True." I got to see that one on "The Rising," Tour and it made me very happy. A-Man, speaking of "Racing In The Street," have you ever seen those bumper stickers that say: "My other car is a "69 Chevy with a 396"? I've seen them two or three times over the years and I always beep and give them the thumbs up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 No, that's pretty cool though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
outoftune Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I've always found it funny that Hungry Heart was written for The Ramones. For me it's about The River, Stolen Car, Independence Day, and The Price You Pay. Pretty heavy stuff. Side one 1. "The Ties That Bind" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I love Stolen Car, but the stark Tracks version sends chills up my spine it's so good. I often like that version better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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