cryptique Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Hope Santa gets me one next Xmas maybye? http://www.elpj.com/main.html*cough* $12,000 for the entry-level model *hack* *gag* Doesn't include shipping from Japan or import duty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 *cough* $12,000 for the entry-level model *hack* *gag* I think $5,000 of that pays for the round-trip ticket of the intern who delivers the package directly to your doorstep. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Well yes this is certainly true. There are also less facilities to make LPs than CDs (anymore), but that still does not account for new LPs being $25. It was just a few years ago that new LPs being sold by Thrill Jockey and Drag City were selling for just over $10. how long ago? the current standard list price for Drag City LPs is $14. i just checked a few thrilljockey releases and they were either $10 or $13 for LPs. doesn't seem so bad to me. there are definitely more boutique pressings that stretch towards $20-$30 per unit, and these are 180g, double disc, nice artwork type releases (at least most of the time). btw, here's the link i was referring to:http://terminal-boredom.com/forums/index.php?topic=22102.0 here's a choice quote from a guy who runs a label (S-S records)Easy. Manufacturing cost. I just got a quote for a release that will be a double LP, released also as a single CD. The quote was for 1000 2LPs and 500 CDs, so there is a slight price break on the vinyl for doing over 500. 2LP, gatefold sleeve, printed innersleeves, mastering: cost $10 eachCD w/ 16 page booklet in jewel case: $3 each Now that is the barebone manufacturing cost to me, not the wholesale or the retail. It does not include the band's cut/royalties, studio costs (which for this one is high), misc crap like buying a special font for the sleeve, postage, promo copies, etc. All of that will get worked into the wholesale price and, for me at least, to keep the vinyl cost as low as possible, will probably mostly get loaded onto the CD wholesale price. Still the vinyl will end up on my mail order for at least $18. The CD probably for $10. It might look like the mark up is high, but only if you dont figure in the non-manufacturing costs. Figure those in and it is a low mark up. Also, remember that none of this reflects the labor I put into it, which if I was paid minimum wage would be at least a couple grand. Anyway, that is why vinyl prices are higher than CD prices. And, actually, the cost of making CDs has been lower than vinyl for quite some time, however because vinyl was seen as a dead medium and undesirable and CDs the best thing ever, the wholesale cost of vinyl was artificially low while the wholesale of CDs were high (initially set by the majors by illegally price fixing it). With the crash of CDs, rise of digital, and semi-new status of vinyl as a desirable collector's/boutique medium, this is the first year in which the wholesale price of CDs and vinyl somewhat reflect reality. Actually, if labels like S.S. were treated like real businesses - such as someone who makes skateboards or the pressing plants who make our vinyl does - the wholesale cost of vinyl would be at least a couple bucks more per release. Domestic 7"s would retail for $8 and LP for $17. At some stores, its not far from those prices, as they need to mark up in order to pay their bills. One other thing to consider is that there is a resale market in vinyl which is not there with CDs. You can buy a record from my mail order for $12 and sell it to someone here for $6 pretty easy if you dont like it or just want to unload it. You might get more if it is limited or becomes collectible. Buy a CD for $10 and then list it up here for $1 and you wont get a response. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 With the price of cds (apparently) dropping to around $10 new, will the local music dealer then be forced to drop the price of used cds from $7 to $5? Can they afford it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 I think $5,000 of that pays for the round-trip ticket of the intern who delivers the package directly to your doorstep.Nope: Doesn't include shipping from Japan or import duty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Doesn't include shipping from Japan or import duty. No, because that covers the baggage fees and on-board snacks for the intern. ETA: Not to mention the pillow and blanket surcharge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 how long ago? the current standard list price for Drag City LPs is $14. i just checked a few thrilljockey releases and they were either $10 or $13 for LPs. doesn't seem so bad to me. there are definitely more boutique pressings that stretch towards $20-$30 per unit, and these are 180g, double disc, nice artwork type releases (at least most of the time). Okay so Drag City is currently $14....that's just over $10 in my book. A single LP that sells for $25 (not the super deluxe Wilco reissues we are all scrambling to get..) is overpriced. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it, but to me, I really gotta want something to pay that much (I bought a Bert Jansch reissue at $20 a few years ago.) Somne of those going for the upper limit are also "boutique" pressings too, but then many albums fall into this category unless the big record companies have the dies around and are re-pressing old albums. All this falls into the category of whatever the market will bear. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 That guy who runs the label and says there is no resale market for CDs needs to spend some time on Amazon. I have bought a fair amount of relatively obscure CDs and boxsets and actually made a profit reselling them. I have also bought many mainstream discs for, say, $8 ($5 + $3 shipping on Amazon), and resold them for about the same, thereby making my total cost about $4 or $5 per disc. Not too shabby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Okay so Drag City is currently $14....that's just over $10 in my book. sorry, i guess i misunderstood your point...i thought you were saying that DC and TJ used to be reasonably priced and now were exorbitantly priced. That guy who runs the label and says there is no resale market for CDs needs to spend some time on Amazon. I have bought a fair amount of relatively obscure CDs and boxsets and actually made a profit reselling them. I have also bought many mainstream discs for, say, $8 ($5 + $3 shipping on Amazon), and resold them for about the same, thereby making my total cost about $4 or $5 per disc. Not too shabby. good to know...i've got a pile of cds that i should sell. but, i do tend to agree w/ him...it's not very hard to do some internet searching and finding good quality mp3s of most any cd released...which kinda makes the cd superfluous to some...so why spend $6 on a cd? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 It's not very hard to do some internet searching and finding good quality mp3s of most any cd released...which kinda makes the cd superfluous to some...so why spend $6 on a cd?Liner notes. Actually, I like having the actual disc. If I really enjoy the contents (like, say, The Beatles Mono box set), I'll keep it. I have been around long enough that I have a healthy distrust of computers and related technology. Files go bad or disappear, hard drives crap out, etc. I've been burned by technology too many times over the years to ever trust it 100%.If I buy a CD and don't place a very high value on it - liner notes are inessential or nonexistent, music is so-so, etc. - I don't mind putting it on my hard drive and iPod and reselling it. But it's rare I'll go for an mp3 only acquisition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Mp3 files are not the same as the sound files on a CD. Plus, stealing is stealing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Mp3 files are not the same as the sound files on a CD. Plus, stealing is stealing.Good point. I mean, I figure if I buy it, used or not, I can do what I want with it, that is, I can resell it. I wouldn't burn a bunch of copies and sell them, obviously, or try to profit off bootlegs. But if I buy it, I'll resell it and either recoup some of my original expense or, in lucky cases, make a couple bucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 That is certainly true. You can do as you please. I was sort of trying to be funny there. I meant that taking shit from out there can lead to trouble. And once you know how, it is somewhat difficult to let go of it. If I have a cd I no longer want, I just give it away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 That is certainly true. You can do as you please. I was sort of trying to be funny there. I meant that taking shit from out there can lead to trouble. And once you know how, it is somewhat difficult to let go of it. If I have a cd I no longer want, I just give it away.I know what you mean about taking shit for free. I know a guy who's a musician who never buys music. He gets everything for free on the Napster-type sites, all in mp3 format. Yet he somehow wants people to buy his CDs. Ironic, don't you think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 other than some new jazz lp reissues on 180gram that I've seen, I haven't seen any single LP pushing $25. It's true, that they can be more expensive than a CD, and often get up to $20 or so, but those are usually the LPs that come with an mp3 download. It could be that I am remembering wrong, but I think most new "indie" band LPs these days are in the 15-20 range. Also, I bought all of Pavement's LPs (reissues) last week (new) for $7.99 each at Kim's on 1st ave in NYC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgoodwin22 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 other than some new jazz lp reissues on 180gram that I've seen, I haven't seen any single LP pushing $25. It's true, that they can be more expensive than a CD, and often get up to $20 or so, but those are usually the LPs that come with an mp3 download. It could be that I am remembering wrong, but I think most new "indie" band LPs these days are in the 15-20 range. Also, I bought all of Pavement's LPs (reissues) last week (new) for $7.99 each at Kim's on 1st ave in NYC. how do the pavement vinyl reissues sound? are the 180 gram? i've been burned by vinyl reissues that aren't 180 and sound like complete shit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 how do the pavement vinyl reissues sound? are the 180 gram? i've been burned by vinyl reissues that aren't 180 and sound like complete shit. I've only had a chance to listen to terror twilight. I think they are 120 gram. For $7.99, I couldn't pass it up. TT sounded really good/warm to me. Then again, I am not looking for high fidelity from Pavement or these albums, so maybe you shouldn't rely on my opinion. I just looked on Amazon, and they are listed as "Low Price Vinyl" versions for $10.99. The albums come with mp3 download too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgoodwin22 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I've only had a chance to listen to terror twilight. I think they are 120 gram. For $7.99, I couldn't pass it up. TT sounded really good/warm to me. Then again, I am not looking for high fidelity from Pavement or these albums, so maybe you shouldn't rely on my opinion. I just looked on Amazon, and they are listed as "Low Price Vinyl" versions for $10.99. The albums come with mp3 download too. i guess the biggest thing i worry about when i order anything under 180 gram vinyl is receiving it warped. the last few albums i purchased (ryan adams) were a little warped when i received them. i still need to pick up the wilco re-releases (AM, Summertetth...etc.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 well, my TT (120 gram) wasn't warped and both my AM and Summerteeth (180 gram) were warped. So, who knows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 how do the pavement vinyl reissues sound? are the 180 gram? i've been burned by vinyl reissues that aren't 180 and sound like complete shit. the 180g thing is more on aesthetics and inferred quality rather than actually hearing a difference, i think. virgin vinyl has probably more affect on sound quality. the remastering and quality of the pressing certainly matters quite a bit. other than some new jazz lp reissues on 180gram that I've seen, I haven't seen any single LP pushing $25. It's true, that they can be more expensive than a CD, and often get up to $20 or so, but those are usually the LPs that come with an mp3 download. It could be that I am remembering wrong, but I think most new "indie" band LPs these days are in the 15-20 range. Also, I bought all of Pavement's LPs (reissues) last week (new) for $7.99 each at Kim's on 1st ave in NYC. the Neil Young records were really expensive; major label vinyl in general seems to be pricier than the typical indie release (not counting ultra-deluxe/small pressing records). i like what Matador is doing w/ these lesser-priced LPs...they give the fan the choice of springing for the high dollar/nice cover/180g etc trappings and pay accordingly, or they can get the more spartan issue for a lot cheaper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 sorry, i guess i misunderstood your point...i thought you were saying that DC and TJ used to be reasonably priced and now were exorbitantly priced. The beauty of the internet...it is hard to figure out what people are saying. No, I think TJ and DC are still reasonable and I think other companies also are reasonable, but I think more reissues and frankly non-reissues are too expensive. Giving folks an MP3 download is just good sense. So all those LPs all those years that were not 180 were shit? I don't think so. Frankly it is what is in the grooves, not how big the disk is that makes a difference. Hell there are even some dynaflex LPs that play perfectly fine from back in teh 80s. Sure it is nice to think that the extra heft makes a difference, but I have my doubts. There were plenty of complaints about the new Wilcos not so long ago. If you want heft, get the old Edison disks.... LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgoodwin22 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 well, my TT (120 gram) wasn't warped and both my AM and Summerteeth (180 gram) were warped. So, who knows. that sucks...yeah, i heard some people were having problems with warped copies of summerteeth and the first song skipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 well, my TT (120 gram) wasn't warped and both my AM and Summerteeth (180 gram) were warped. So, who knows.Sorry I missed this first time around. This is my point exactly. Everyone needs to remember that sometimes the warping is part of the manufacturing, not from sitting around in someone's hot car or attic for weeks or years. All records are pressed hot, so if the manufacturer is not careful any album could be warped. Are LPs made out of non-virgin vinyl anymore? Maybe, but who says virgin vinyl is better than recycled anyway? I believe this is also a bit of hype. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Definitely a dumb question, especially from someone with thousands of LPs, but: Does "non-virgin vinyl" = melted down LPs repressed into other LPs? Or is it vinyl from some other source? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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