Torture memos released

[futureage1]

Chuck Todd Depicts Support For Torture Investigations As Fringe Phenomenon

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/c...r_n_189647.html

 

I thought MSNBC was the liberal station?????? That is about as accurate of a report as the claims it was all Republicans or hicks at the tea parties. There was a tea party in NYC. Is that considered backwoods now? That is about at the level of FOX only broadcasting the worst elements at the tea parties and choosing to broadcast all from cities in the deep south. Control the resistance and let the plundering and stripping of our rights and treasury keep going. Divide and conquer. DC and the mainstream media has it down to a science. My guess is they will soon start showing code pink members as representative of opposition to torture.

[jakobnicholas]

An admiral admits that good info came from the interrogation techniques. He admits he's not a believer of it, and thinks its wrong.

 

But post-911 was a very scary and mysterious time. The Bush administration didn't know what attack, if any, might be next. The Bush administration claims the interrogations prevented an LA attack, and some memos released supposedly support that.

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592/

[Good Old Neon]

An admiral admits that good info came from the interrogation techniques.

 

Oh, you mean the use of torture?

 

But post-911 was a very scary and mysterious time. The Bush administration didn't know what attack, if any, might be next. The Bush administration claims the interrogations prevented an LA attack, and some memos released supposedly support that.

 

 

From Andrew Sullivan:

 

 

[John Smith]

Seems to me that the supporters of torture fall into a number of categories...

 

They deserve whatever they get and none of them are innocent because they would not be in our custody if they were innocent.

 

It was a scary time and they need information fast.

Which ties into

[jakobnicholas]

Oh, you mean the use of torture?

 

 

 

I'm not a defender of using torture. Neither is the admiral.

 

 

Sure, it was a mistake by the Bush administration to set up a torture program. That's something we should never have to use. But 9-11 WAS different.

 

If it's true that water-boarding 3 people (one of whom masterminded it all) led to information that prevented an LA terror attack, maybe we should be glad that there was something in place to get information from the most extreme of terrorists.

 

It's easy with our hindisight-20/20 goggles on to be all compassionate and caring and moral. But at that moment of history, if that a-hole that plotted the attacks didn't want to talk, I'd have signed off on torturing him. In a heartbeat.

[Hixter]

No: what is far more important and far graver is the decision after the 2004 re-election, after the original period of panic, to set up a torture program, replete with every professional and bureaucratic nicety.

 

Waterboarding - the most extreme interrogation technique used - was not performed after 2003. I'd hesitate to label any of the other techniques 'torture.'

[Good Old Neon]

Waterboarding - the most extreme interrogation technique used - was not performed after 2003. I'd hesitate to label any of the other techniques 'torture.'

 

I'd suggest you do a little more fact checking before making such a statement.

[tugmoose]

Does anyone really believe that if a clear connection existed between these tactics and an actual thwarted attack it would not have been leaked in detail to every known media outlet?

 

Instead, we just get "It saved lives, trust us."

[Hixter]

I'd suggest you do a little more fact checking before making such a statement.

 

You have proof that people were waterboarded after 2003?

[John Smith]

I'm not a defender of using torture. Neither is the admiral.

 

 

Sure, it was a mistake by the Bush administration to set up a torture program. That's something we should never have to use. But 9-11 WAS different.

 

If it's true that water-boarding 3 people (one of whom masterminded it all) led to information that prevented an LA terror attack, maybe we should be glad that there was something in place to get information from the most extreme of terrorists.

 

It's easy with our hindisight-20/20 goggles on to be all compassionate and caring and moral. But at that moment of history, if that a-hole that plotted the attacks didn't want to talk, I'd have signed off on torturing him. In a heartbeat.

 

I'm confused you don't defend the use of torture yet you seem to jsutify it by saying 911 was different and it did prevent the attack on LA? Perhaps a little clarrification of these two differing positions is needed. BTW you do know that in the real press that the LA plot has already been discredited as not an imminent threat and nothing more than talk if even that? Hardly a ticking time bomb situation.

[Good Old Neon]

Sure, it was a mistake by the Bush administration to set up a torture program. That's something we should never have to use. But 9-11 WAS different.

 

It wasn

[bleedorange]

As a self-professed Christian, isn

[dondoboy]

We have spies, don't we? Clandestine operations to ferret out plots and suspected terrorists. If the intelligence communities in this country had not been in competition instead of cooperation before 9/11 it probably would have been thwarted. They seem to be working pretty well now.

 

I don't think the intelligence apparatuses are ever going to come out and say "Dude's, we totally caught this guy heading to Omaha and here's how we did it."

[Good Old Neon]

You have proof that people were waterboarded after 2003?

 

 

If you're truly interested, I cannot recommend Jane Mayers' The Dark Side, highly enough.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Inside-Ter...n/dp/0385526393

[Hixter]

[Good Old Neon]

How are terrorists protected under rules set forth in the Geneva Conventions?

 

You mean prisoners of war?

 

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

[Hixter]

If you're truly interested, I cannot recommend Jane Mayers' The Dark Side, highly enough.

 

Does it claim that people were waterboarded after 2003?

[bleedorange]

You mean prisoners of war?

 

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

 

 

Okay. I'll rephrase. How are terrorists and members of a terrorist network like Al-Qaeda considered prisoners of war?

[Good Old Neon]

Okay. I'll rephrase. How are terrorists and members of a terrorist network like Al-Qaeda considered prisoners of war?

 

Have we not spent the past 8 years executing a War on Terror

[bleedorange]

Have we not spent the past 8 years executing a War on Terror

[Good Old Neon]

Does it claim that people were waterboarded after 2003?

 

There is evidence, yes. Given that until recently, the US denied engaging in the use of torture, i.e. waterboarding, and the secrecy and deceit surrounding it, would you agree that we should continue to remain highly skeptical of claims made by this government? To do otherwise, by my estimation, would be foolish.

[Good Old Neon]

Sarcasm aside, how do any of the definitions under Article 4 apply to terrorists or Al Qaeda? I only ask, because after reading Article 4 numerous times, I don't see how you can call a captured terrorist a POW.

 

Then what, exactly, are they? Enemy combatants? An Orwellian term that simply seeks to obscure the obvious.

[bleedorange]

Then what, exactly, are they? Enemy combatants? An Orwellian term that simply seeks to obscure the obvious.

 

Since you keep avoiding the question, I'll assume you simply do not know. But the Geneva Conventions clearly go to the trouble of defining prisoners of war. Why, if it seemingly applies to anyone and everyone? I would argue that it doesn't.

 

Article 5 does mention some sort of tribunal if there is any doubt as to whether someone is a prisoner of war. I would argue that, in the case of terrorists or Al Qaeda, there is no doubt.

[explodo]

Have we not spent the past 8 years executing a War on Terror

[mountain bed]

If you're truly interested, I cannot recommend Jane Mayers' The Dark Side, highly enough.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Inside-Ter...n/dp/0385526393

A must-read, imo.