Steven is mostly right

[bjorn_skurj]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/2...rock/index.html

 

 

What will save rock 'n' roll?

• Story Highlights
  
• Steven Van Zandt: Bands aren't woodshedding, aren't learning rock 'n' roll history
  
• Record label head: "square pegs ultimately who are going to change the world"
  
• Ways to counter trend: Use technology wisely, invest in history
  

By Todd Leopold

CNN(CNN) -- Steven Van Zandt did not mince words.

 

"I want to spend just a minute on a topic that never ever gets discussed in the music business -- the music," the Bruce Springsteen guitarist and "Sopranos" star said in a speech to the SXSW music and arts festival in March. "The reason nobody wants to talk about it is because it mostly sucks!

 

"Who are we kidding here?" he said. "Nobody's buying records? Because they suck!"

 

He called the speech "A Crisis of Craft," and implored listeners to get back to rock 'n' roll's roots. Learn how to play cover songs, he said. Get people to dance. Harness your working-class energy. Take pride in craft.

 

It's been two months since that speech, and Van Zandt is still passionate about the subject.

 

"[Rock 'n' roll] is a craft that has to be learned," he tells CNN. "There are things you learn by listening to great records, copying heroes." He believes that he said some things that people were thinking, but haven't said out loud.

 

But the rumbles are out there. The music business is in a state of flux, with the sales of more profitable CDs continuing to fall even as single downloads climb. "American Idol's" season is coming to an end, with rock purists once again assailing the show's slick pop sensibility. Commercial radio, country, rap and hip-hop -- they all have their critics, many of them wishing a return to the way things used to be. Blog: What do you think of the state of rock 'n' roll?

 

Van Zandt has sympathy for all sides, coming at the issue from what he calls "a unique perspective" -- he's a musician, a DJ (with his radio show and Sirius XM channel, "Little Steven's Underground Garage") and record label honcho (Wicked Cool Records). He's quick to observe that he's not slamming all pop music. There's vibrancy in some hip-hop, he says, and he admires "Idol," particularly when it promotes music history.

 

"But it's quite an alien world to my traditional rock 'n' roll world," he adds. "It has nothing to do with it."

 

Within that rock 'n' roll world, he worries. Today's bands, he says, look down on performing covers, and as a result many have gotten lost in a musical wilderness. "The result is an extraordinary amount of mediocrity," he says. "There are no standards to live up to."

 

Which is part of the problem with rejuvenating rock 'n' roll, says Steve Greenberg, founder of S-Curve Records, which includes alt-rockers Tinted Windows and We The Kings among its acts.

 

Technology is one problem, he observes. "I think in the old days, in order to even be decent, it took a lot of work," he says. "And today, relatively untalented and uncreative people can actually make rock 'n' roll music that sounds kind of decent. And I think that kind of fools people and causes people to be lazy."

 

But for Greenberg there's also a sense that the "square pegs" -- the naturally rebellious types -- are getting shoved in round holes. "A lot of opportunities inevitably these days go to people who fit the format, whether the format is Top 40 radio or 'American Idol' or [Radio] Disney or whatever it is," he says. "There's so much pressure to fit those slots. And it's the square pegs ultimately who are going to change the world."

 

The spirited Greenberg wants to channel that rebellious energy. He's high on a band he signed named Care Bears on Fire, a trio of 13-year-old Brooklyn girls who sound like the Ramones with a touch of Shonen Knife.

 

"Their attitude is maybe one size doesn't fit all," he says. "I feel like the spirit of rock 'n' roll lives in those guys. ... They're having fun playing rock 'n' roll."

 

Scott Booker, the manager of the avant-pop band the Flaming Lips ("She Don't Use Jelly," "Do You Realize??"), is also hoping to foster creativity. He's serving as the CEO of the Academy of Contemporary Music, a music school based at Central Oklahoma University. Drawing from a British concept, the school plans to offer courses in music, music production and the music business, many starting this fall.

 

Booker observes record labels aren't spending as much money on developing talent. He hopes the ACM not only makes bands more signable, but also teaches them business strategies, such as setting up their own label and distribution apparatus.

 

"This could become a think tank for how the industry could go," he says, musing aloud. "People think of music as a throwaway cultural item [nowadays]. I want to change that. ... Make things more exciting."

 

Technology, adds BMI executive Phil Graham, can also be rock 'n' roll's friend. "The opportunities the digital world give the population as a whole to throw their talents to a very wide audience is a very good thing," he says. More people have gotten the chance to put their music out there and connect with fellow music lovers, he says.

 

Of course, there are also old-fashioned connections. BMI sponsors dozens of showcases for new acts; young bands play clubs and hawk their CDs (or Web page). Van Zandt welcomes the efforts, but hopes there's also a connection to rock 'n' roll history. He's founded a Rock and Roll Forever Foundation to foster music education in schools. (To its credit, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum has similar programs.)

 

"The spark comes from whatever people are into these days -- and that very well may be 'American Idol,' " he says. "You start with whatever singer you're rooting for, and you start to trace back where they come from. It's up to the artists themselves to make sure that their fans know where they're coming from, to make it clear that music doesn't fall off trees."

[Vacant Horizon]

"The result is an extraordinary amount of mediocrity,"

 

 

this says it all. 99% of music is complete junk. and the fact that anyone can make a cd these days makes for even more junk! seriously, is there anything out there worth listening too besides wilco, son volt, white stripes, black keys, kings of leon?

[myboyblue]

"The result is an extraordinary amount of mediocrity,"

 

 

this says it all. 99% of music is complete junk. and the fact that anyone can make a cd these days makes for even more junk! seriously, is there anything out there worth listening too besides wilco, son volt, white stripes, black keys, kings of leon?

There sure is, Grandpa, there sure is.

[jff]

There sure is, Grandpa, there sure is.

 

Too true, and a lot of it exists apart from the tradition Steven Van Zant claims is so important (Sonic Youth, for example).

 

Van Zant has a somewhat valid point, but if you listen to his XM station a large portion of the new music they play is either novelty songs, bland throwbacks or songs by bands who clearly can not play their instruments well. I think that puts a big dent in his argument.

[Vacant Horizon]

good points above. my judgment may have been a bit charged. i'm just passionate about this stuff and come to think of it, a bit conservative. like steve, i have this notion of a 'mythical' past where music was just awesome. i'm thinking late 60's early 70's. they key word there is myth though. there's always been good music and if bands stick with some lineage from the past, then how will anything new come along? part of my frustration personally is that i like music too much and there's just so much out there at our finger tips now that its overwhelming for me. so, i just get reactionary and 'right off' so much stuff immediately.

[sureshot]

Complete bullshit. This tired argument gets trotted out all the time.

 

There is more amazing music coming out every year than most people even have the time to listen to. The major labels are just upset because they no longer hold a monopoly on distribution.

 

This guy sounds like every other old man sitting in their rockers claiming things were better back in "their day". Meanwhile, the kids are out at the clubs hearing the cutting edge stuff that will probably be in arenas 20 years from now.

 

this says it all. 99% of music is complete junk. and the fact that anyone can make a cd these days makes for even more junk! seriously, is there anything out there worth listening too besides wilco, son volt, white stripes, black keys, kings of leon?

 

you need to get out more. that is all.

[jff]

Van Zant's comment in his Crisis of Craft whinefest that the indie labels need to establish a new work ethic is insulting. Van Zant is an asshole and should be ashamed of himself.

[Rusty Shackleford]

There is more amazing music coming out every year than most people even have the time to listen to. The major labels are just upset because they no longer hold a monopoly on distribution.

 

This guy sounds like every other old man sitting in their rockers claiming things were better back in "their day". Meanwhile, the kids are out at the clubs hearing the cutting edge stuff that will probably be in arenas 20 years from now.

 

I don't think Steven Van Zandt is a shill for the big labels at all. Quite the contrary, he thinks they've all made a huge mistake by putting all their emphasis on hip-hop, bubble-gum pop, and whatever the hell it is that Gwen Stefani does. He loves the stuff that he considers to be rock-n-roll, and wants to preserve the rock-n-roll spirit for future generations. Good for him.

 

What bugs me about Little Stevie, though, is that he has a pretty narrow conception of what "rock-n-roll" is. He seems obsessed with the past, and fails to recognize the great rock bands that are out there today. And any guy who works on Springsteen's records these days shouldn't be allowed to complain about how much records these days suck.

 

That, and he killed X-Country on XM.

[Good Old Neon]

Van Zandt

 

There's vibrancy in some hip-hop, he says, and he admires "Idol," particularly when it promotes music history.

 

Idol represents all this is wrong within the music industry, i.e.

[quarter23cd]

Complete bullshit. This tired argument gets trotted out all the time.

 

There is more amazing music coming out every year than most people even have the time to listen to. The major labels are just upset because they no longer hold a monopoly on distribution.

 

This guy sounds like every other old man sitting in their rockers claiming things were better back in "their day". Meanwhile, the kids are out at the clubs hearing the cutting edge stuff that will probably be in arenas 20 years from now.

 

you need to get out more. that is all.

 

 

Maybe so. Maybe not. Definitely, mainstream pop music is more overtly corporate now than at any time in my lifetime. I'm astounded by stuff like Idol or Disney-manufactured pop not so much that it exists--the industry has "created" stars like this forever, but rarely so transparently. Its the chutzpah of creating TV shows to put a spotlight on that fact that they know the masses will buy whatever they tell them to that is jaw-dropping to me. But, whatever. I'm not sure that's even relevant to what we're talking about here, since I'm assuming we're talking about more underground stuff.

 

I am admittedly only semi plugged-in to whatever is going on these days(lots of dadding, not so much rocking) and I definitely don't get out much. But I'm also pretty savvy to technology and keep at least semi-aware of what is going on. There are lots of great ways of discovering new music these days more efficient than the "old ways" of going to a store and buying a record by a band you've never heard of that has cool cover art and taking it home and hoping to hell it doesn't completely suck. There are a lot more avenues to explore music. Strangely, though, I also see musical communities becoming more and more isolated into narrow little niches. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

 

As for the "amazing music coming out every year"....eh, maybe. Personally, I haven't found much new music that I really connect to in, god, forever, but that could just be part of me getting older and music itself slipping down my priority list. The Best Record Ever could drop in my lap right now and it wouldn't rule my world the way it once would have. Enjoy your cutting edge stuff, sureshot. I'll try not to run over you with my Hoveround in 20 years when you're on your way to the arena to see your favorite band, forming arguments in your head as to why their new album is SO not dadrock.

[jff]

It's hilarious how old timers like Van Zant always pretend there weren't tons of shitty bands in the old days.

[sureshot]

Maybe so. Maybe not. Definitely, mainstream pop music is more overtly corporate now than at any time in my lifetime. I'm astounded by stuff like Idol or Disney-manufactured pop not so much that it exists--the industry has "created" stars like this forever, but rarely so transparently. Its the chutzpah of creating TV shows to put a spotlight on that fact that they know the masses will buy whatever they tell them to that is jaw-dropping to me. But, whatever. I'm not sure that's even relevant to what we're talking about here, since I'm assuming we're talking about more underground stuff.

 

Dude, this has always existed. The Banana Splits, anyone?

 

I am admittedly only semi plugged-in to whatever is going on these days(lots of dadding, not so much rocking) and I definitely don't get out much. But I'm also pretty savvy to technology and keep at least semi-aware of what is going on. There are lots of great ways of discovering new music these days more efficient than the "old ways" of going to a store and buying a record by a band you've never heard of that has cool cover art and taking it home and hoping to hell it doesn't completely suck. There are a lot more avenues to explore music. Strangely, though, I also see musical communities becoming more and more isolated into narrow little niches. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

 

I agree, but if you look around this is happening in all segments of society. Wheras we used to have major cultural touchstones that were pretty much universally shared by everyone, now (largely due to the internet, but also other factors) its very easy to just plug into communities that just share your own beliefs. Good or bad, I dont know. Its definitely segmenting society much much more.

 

As for the "amazing music coming out every year"....eh, maybe. Personally, I haven't found much new music that I really connect to in, god, forever, but that could just be part of me getting older and music itself slipping down my priority list. The Best Record Ever could drop in my lap right now and it wouldn't rule my world the way it once would have. Enjoy your cutting edge stuff, sureshot. I'll try not to run over you with my Hoveround in 20 years when you're on your way to the arena to see your favorite band, forming arguments in your head as to why their new album is SO not dadrock.

 

Music is a highly personal thing, so I say listen to what makes you happy.

 

Most of the stuff I listen to isnt really that underground, at least by underground standard. Take a band like Boris...the quality and scope of these guys' output boggles my mind. And yet they still play a venue like the Empty Bottle when they roll through town. Im not complaining by any stretch, but it gets to my point that there are some incredibly relevant, boundary-pushing/blurring groups out there today which get next to no recognition outside of some fairly niche communities.

[LouieB]

It's hilarious how old timers like Van Zant always pretend there weren't tons of shitty bands in the old days.

yea, but now they are "vintage" shitty bands rather than contemporary shitty bands....

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

As for the "amazing music coming out every year"....eh, maybe. Personally, I haven't found much new music that I really connect to in, god, forever, but that could just be part of me getting older and music itself slipping down my priority list. The Best Record Ever could drop in my lap right now and it wouldn't rule my world the way it once would have. Enjoy your cutting edge stuff, sureshot. I'll try not to run over you with my Hoveround in 20 years when you're on your way to the arena to see your favorite band, forming arguments in your head as to why their new album is SO not dadrock.

 

That

[LouieB]

There are a lot more avenues to explore music. Strangely, though, I also see musical communities becoming more and more isolated into narrow little niches. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

The one way people used to hear new music which is little used anymore was the radio. It is the demise of radio play that has isolated people and clearly (to me at least) it is not a good thing.

 

LouieB

[LouieB]

That

[jakobnicholas]

There's a TON of great current music. It just may be harder to find because there's so many bands jumping in the pool right now. And if you base what's current by what you hear on the radio or see on TV, then yeah, no shit it's gonna seem like music sucks. You have to get off your butt and/or do some research and seek out what might be good. Sometimes you'll try something that kinda sucks, then you might stumble across an artist that you love....music's ALWAYS been like that.

 

The Jonas Bros. or Hannah Montana don't bother me. The pop crap aimed at tweeners has always been around.

 

And the "anybody can do it with today's technology" argument is crap also. Kanye West's latest cd used Pro Tools and other new technology, and I doubt Kanye can play guitar or keyboards as well as most musicians, but who cares?! Music is more about the sound and feel and vibe and lyrics. How much music did My Blood Valentive understand when they released "Loveless"? I don't know, nor do I care. I personally love the soundscapes they created on that record. I could care less how well they can play various instruments or if they understand the history of rock n' roll.

[MattZ]

it

[Good Old Neon]

Every time I read one of your posts I assume you are the guy in the avatar (even though I know you are not), so when you talk about being old I think..yea, this guy is REALLY old....

 

Incidently you are right on target and as someone who has 20 years on you, the sheen wears off much more quickly....

 

LouieB

 

Thank you, but I could never quite live up to many of the lows perpetrated by Mr. Bukowski

[jff]

How much music did My Blood Valentive understand when they released "Loveless"? I don't know, nor do I care. I personally love the soundscapes they created on that record. I could care less how well they can play various instruments or if they understand the history of rock n' roll.

 

My Bloody Valentine would have been so much better if they had woodshedded for five years on "20 Flight Rock" and "Be Bop a Lula".

 

For people who don't like reading articles, that is what the article says.

 

Thank you, but I could never quite live up to many of the lows perpetrated by Mr. Bukowski

[sureshot]

Much of it sounds great, but outside of just sounding great, more often than not, once the sheen has worn off, there

[quarter23cd]

That’s sort of how I feel as well. I’m not convinced the quality of the (mostly indie) music being released today has declined, as much as I hate to admit it, at 38, it’s simply more difficult for me to relate to music performed by (and to some extent, for) folks in their teens and twenties. At that age, I was a big fan of angsty, aggressive music (think – Dischord and Amphetamine Reptile and Touch & Go, etc) or anything having to do with break ups and all the usual drama that sort of occupies much of your brain’s processing power – but now that I’m older and with child, I just don’t connect with the music on th same emotional/visceral level.

Yeah, there's some truth to that. My teen years were spent pretty equally divided by twirly hippie stuff and angsty punk, my twenties were pretty much dominated by self-serious indie stuff that seemed to get just a little bit less fun and interesting to me every year. So far my thirties have been spent not giving a crap about labels, revisiting things I thought I had long ago left behind and maybe exploring a few musical alleyways I had overlooked in the past...but I have definitely noticed an increasing disconnect from New music. I'm still paying attention, but absolutely, the shine does go off of things a lot quicker....and probably because, as you said, much of it is made by (and for) people with a different set of priorities than me these days. I can appreciate much of it, but rarely connect as deeply anymore. Oh well.

 

Crikes, I didn't mean to turn this into the "Raise Your Hand If You Are Old" thread. Sorry.

[Sir Stewart]

For such a notorious mess of a man, he sure kept a tidy bookshelf.

At least for the length of time it took to have that photo taken.

[NightOfJoy]

That

[Good Old Neon]

It's also why I am tremendously disappointed in guys like Paul McCartney. It's a whole, new, fresh canvas. And where the hell is Paul? Playing the oldies with studio musicians and pumping his fist in the air to Freedom?

 

Yeah, I guess McCartney didn