Papa John Phillips

[Winston Legthigh]

Mackenzie Phillips claims that she had a sexual relationship with her father, John Phillips, for 10 years during the 80s - initially nonconsentual.

 

Awful awful awful (if true).

[Guest Speed Racer]

Mackenzie Phillips claims that she had a sexual relationship with her father, John Phillips, for 10 years during the 80s - initially nonconsentual.

 

Awful awful awful (if true).

 

A lot of family members are coming out and calling bullshit, and one or two are coming out and claiming it's true. I'm standing waaaaaaay back on this one and really trying to refrain from believing anything. It is so clear that Mackenzie is very, very troubled, her father was very, very troubled, and the whole family seems to be a bit off.

[Good Old Neon]

Mackenzie Phillips claims that she had a sexual relationship with her father, John Phillips, for 10 years during the 80s - initially nonconsentual.

 

Awful awful awful (if true).

 

Awful, hell yes. But why the hell did she feel the need to share this info with the entire planet? Maybe I’m way off base, but public confessions such as this strike me as little more than attention whoring.

[bjorn_skurj]

Revenge? Justice? Rape is pretty awful, and that's understating it almost criminally.

[bleedorange]

Awful, hell yes. But why the hell did she feel the need to share this info with the entire planet? Maybe I’m way off base, but public confessions such as this strike me as little more than attention whoring.

 

Well, her book is in the Amazon Top 20.

[gogo]

For most of her life, she's been known as a homely, druggie, washed-up former child/teen star. If there's some reason that her life was hell, and talking about it can make other people realize that they're not fundamentally fucked-up, that maybe they need to deal with that kind of crap head-on, then I think she's doing a good thing.

 

Apologies for that last sentence. I think I said what I meant to say, even if it wasn't pretty.

[Guest Speed Racer]

but public confessions such as this strike me as little more than attention whoring.

 

Two thoughts:

 

She said she wanted to "give a face to consensual incest"; and

 

In my experience, people in my life who have dealt with a trauma generally reach a point at which absolutely ALL they talk about is that trauma; once they are ready to deal with it, if they are a talker in general they are likely to turn every single conversation they witness into a testament to their experience and survival. Not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying it seems to be a part of the healing process for a lot of people - some of these people just happen to have access to the AP.

[M. (hristine]

Money for dope. Money for rope.

 

A parent that would shoot up their child is capable of anything. Nico did the same thing with her son.

 

It is the ultimate evil of narcissism.

[Good Old Neon]

Well, her book is in the Amazon Top 20.

 

Well, there you go. I was not aware that she had a book to promote.

 

It strikes me as entirely dysfunctional to seek justice on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Exploitive on Oprah’s part, and misguided on Mackenzie’s.

 

If she is giving a voice to anything, it’s her book cover. I’m not suggesting people should remain silent about this stuff, on the contrary, but Jesus Christ, prime time television is probably NOT the best place to seek deep, long lasting healing and/or emotional closure. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these sorts of confessionals are frequently penned by folks who had a little bit of fame at one point in their life, and have since lost it.

[M. (hristine]

 

 

She said she wanted to "give a face to consensual incest"

 

 

Someone needs to point out here that consensual sex can only occur between peers, regardless their familial relationship. Sex that begins between a child and an elder, because of the dynamic inherent, can never be consensual.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Sex that begins between a child and an elder, because of the dynamic inherent, can never be consensual.

 

I motion to change your statement to "sex that begins between a child and their guardian-figure," since she was 19 when the initial alleged incident occured, and because age-gap relationships are fairly common and not susceptable to that inherent dynamic.

[M. (hristine]

I motion to change your statement to "sex that begins between a child and their guardian-figure," since she was 19 when the initial alleged incident occured, and because age-gap relationships are fairly common and not susceptable to that inherent dynamic.

Ah, ok. I thought this first occurred when she was younger.

[Guest Speed Racer]

It strikes me as entirely dysfunctional to seek justice on the Oprah Winfrey Show. Exploitive on Oprah’s part, and misguided on Mackenzie’s...Jesus Christ, prime time television is probably NOT the best place to seek deep, long lasting healing and/or emotional closure.

 

My mother has been seeking deep, long lasting healing and emotional closure via Oprah since the mid-90's. I guarantee you she saw that show and sobbed the whole way through. She'll never actually find closure there, and I agree with your assessment entirely, but that isn't to say that millions of people don't seek emotional healing and closure through Oprah and other prime-time television daily.

 

Ah, ok. I thought this first occurred when she was younger.

 

Nope. He abused her countless other ways prior to then.

[gogo]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that these sorts of confessionals are frequently penned by folks who had a little bit of fame at one point in their life, and have since lost it.

We live in a fame-obsessed culture. I think that people who once had a little bit of fame, and feel that they can use that fame to maybe help someone else, should be allowed to try. I don't know, I may be way off base on this. Maybe it is all about selling books. I'd prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Someone needs to point out here that consensual sex can only occur between peers, regardless their familial relationship. Sex that begins between a child and an elder, because of the dynamic inherent, can never be consensual.

I agree, Chris, and I think any in-depth reading of her story will probably make this point. I'm guessing that what she's pointing to here are those relationships where the participants believe that they're consenting. I believe she says that it started with rape, and became consensual. She was over 18 at the time, too, so in her mind, I'm sure a lot of this is still mixed up with guilt feelings for not ending it. But yeah, the power imbalance between her and her father is still there.

 

 

 

edit: This was being typed while Speed Racer and M.Chris were having their exchange, above.

[lamradio]

This thread makes me crave Papa John's Pizza.... mmmmmmm....

[Synthesizer Patel]

Someone needs to point out here that consensual sex can only occur between peers, regardless their familial relationship. Sex that begins between a child and an elder, because of the dynamic inherent, can never be consensual.

 

in western society, in the modern age - before that, and still in certain countries today, it's common and one would have to assume as likely to be consensual as anyone older.

 

by the way, i don't know this woman at all - was she in that Beach Boys/Mama's & Papa's kids band? i do really love her dad's first solo album, though!

[Guest Speed Racer]

On a more serious note, I have such a hard time believing anything anymore. Am I that cynical?

 

I always worry about that stuff, too. I think my fear of believing things kind of started with A Million Little Pieces (though I really, REALLY don't want to turn it into a discussion of that book). Famous people who "become the face" for any cause always run the risk of having something in their life discredited, for any number of reasons, potentially harming the people they hoped to help (exactly why the 12-step model promotes anonymity).

 

On the other hand (though I might have three or four hands in this discussion...), someone rather close to me fabricated a molestation accusation (while her father was still alive), purely, it seems, because she wanted to provide a physical manifestation for all of the verbal abuse she endured growing up. The accusation didn't stick for long, but it really was quite a to-do that I don't care to see happen again.

 

That isn't to say that I don't Phillips in this case - like I said in my original post, I'm really interested in staying out of any sort of judgment in this case; I'm just relaying my experiences.

[Good Old Neon]

I would like to think that her choice to go on Oprah was an altruistic one, but like Sunshine, I’m cynical with regards to her intentions. The sensationalistic way in which the episode was marketed, Mackenzie’s “shocking secret revealed”, given the subject matter, strikes me as tasteless and exploitive.

[isadorah]

I agree with Good Old Neon in all of this.

[Guest Speed Racer]

What scares me the most about Oprah is I really, truly thinks she believes she is helping people. :shudder

[Sir Stewart]

Wicked gross.

[gogo]

Again, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her life has been lived under some pretty harsh lights, and she obviously never learned a whole lot about dealing with things in healthy ways. So I'm going to cut her some slack.

[Preferred B]

What scares me the most about Oprah is I really, truly thinks she believes she is helping people. :shudder

In general?

[watch me fall]

I probably would believe it more had she come out with the allegation while her father was still alive and could defend (if you call it that) himself.

[Good Old Neon]

Again, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her life has been lived under some pretty harsh lights, and she obviously never learned a whole lot about dealing with things in healthy ways. So I'm going to cut her some slack.

 

I’m not going to belabor the point, and I respect your opinion, but the hand holding the harsh light has often been her own. It’s not exactly as if the paparazzi were banging on her door, demanding to know all there is to know about someone whose last bit of stardom faded with the advent of the Atari 2600. I mean, we wouldn’t know all this stuff about her, if she hadn’t made a career out of sharing it. If she’s been judged harshly, it’s often because she’s allowed herself to become tabloid fodder.

 

Ok Mackenzie, you were an addict, but lots and lots of people are addicts, they just don’t feel the need to share that part of their lives with the American public, unsolicited. And her story might help some people to get sober, but I would imagine most folks five or ten years younger than myself don’t even know who the hell she is, or what she was famous for. Which is probably why Liz Taylor is no longer the poster child for sobriety either. If Mackenzie serves as an example, it is how NOT to behave once you’ve achieved some semblance of sobriety, by blaming everyone else for why you’ve snorted everything you’ve ever owned or achieved up your nose.

 

Ok, looking back over what I’ve just written, it appears as though I lied, because I am, in fact, belaboring the point – my apologies.

 

I’ll shut up now.