Ted Kennedy to be succeeded by a toolbag

[Guest Speed Racer]

Wow - if that's what you took away from that post, then I've done a really poor job of communicating effectively.

 

I've kind of taken that away from most of your posts regarding religion, healthcare, the GOP, Palin, the 2008 election and pretty much any time you discuss conservatives or the GOP.

[watch me fall]

It just goes to show that America is getting tired of Democrats and Obamas rhetoric. Listen up America, the Republicans are back and we are sick of being told what to do and think by Democrats. Congrats Mass. for electing a senator who won't just follow along like a blind sheep , like the rest of the senate seems to be doing

 

Congrats Mr. Brown! GAS UP THE TRUCK! We are getting ready to take our country back from the tyrant Maobama and put a halt to all this "dope and shame" he has in mind with his radical plans.

[bjorn_skurj]

Dude hates Republicans and thinks they are completely full of shit about everything. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Guest Speed Racer]

Dude hates Republicans and thinks they are completely full of shit about everything. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

Oh, I get that - I'm not blind to that. What I find interesting is that he vilifies them in the same way he portrays them as vilifying others, but that when he does it, he's right and not just pasting inappropriate labels on things.

[LouieB]

Only in America is a taxpayer funded Wall Street bailout and a health care bill without a public option and windfall profits for insurance companies, considered socialism. Since when is it socialism to take from everyone to give to the wealthy?

That is what is called socialism in this country. Everyone wants to believe they will someday be wealthly no matter what.

 

LouieB

[Good Old Neon]

Oh, I get that - I'm not blind to that. What I find interesting is that he vilifies them in the same way he portrays them as vilifying others, but that when he does it, he's right and not just pasting inappropriate labels on things.

 

They’ve vilified themselves, what with their lockstep support of the evil shit perpetrated by Bush, their defense of torture, the glee with which they are celebrating the loss of healthcare for millions of Americans – they don’t need any help from me.

[bobbob1313]

I think recent events have made me feel the Democrats are slightly less detestable than the Republicans as a party.

 

Maybe it's just because they come off as more lock step than the Democrats, and that bothers me on a basic level.

[MattZ]

Oh, I get that - I'm not blind to that. What I find interesting is that he vilifies them in the same way he portrays them as vilifying others, but that when he does it, he's right and not just pasting inappropriate labels on things.

 

Ok, sure, but he isn't villifying every single living Republican. He's being hyperbolic, which, in the context of every other thread around here is par for the course. I dont think I am rationalizing here. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

They’ve vilified themselves, what with their lockstep support of the evil shit perpetrated by Bush, their defense of torture, the glee with which they are celebrating the loss of healthcare for millions of Americans – they don’t need any help from me.

 

Ummmmm, right?

[Guest Speed Racer]

They’ve vilified themselves, what with their lockstep support of the evil shit perpetrated by Obama, their defense of government-sponsored healthcare, the glee with which they ruining the institution of marriage – they don’t need any help from me.

 

None of this sounds particularly crazy to me; it just sounds like someone's opinion.

[Guest Speed Racer]

He's being hyperbolic, which, in the context of every other thread around here is par for the course. I dont think I am rationalizing here. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

My whole point is what you wrote. But the GOP is also hyperbolic, which is par for the course regarding political discourse in this country.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that he's playing their game - not least of all, he's completely buying into it by reacting the way he does.

[Sparky speaks]

This is just gutless.....They (Democrats) have no intention of changing things for the better. Making excuses while they have the majority......

 

http://rawstory.com/2010/01/democrats-talking-points-pass-healthcare/

 

The Republicans sure did a lot of damage with their slim majority the previous 8 years.

[bjorn_skurj]

None of this sounds particularly crazy to me; it just sounds like someone's opinion.

Well, sure. Isn't everything on this board an opinion to some extent or another? Now, if you want to criticize him for being apparently unable or at least unwilling to take an objective, dispassionate look at politics, that's fair.

[bjorn_skurj]

This is just gutless.....They (Democrats) have no intention of changing things for the better. Making excuses while they have the majority......

 

http://rawstory.com/...ass-healthcare/

 

The Republicans sure did a lot of damage with their slim majority the previous 8 years.

I endorse the Dems, while they still can, doing away with the filibuster and ramming health care reform down our collective throat, because we, taken as a nation, are too dumb to do what's in our own best interest.

[Atticus]

because we, taken as a nation, are too dumb to do what's in our own best interest.

 

isn't that why we were set up as a republic, rather than a true democracy?

[bjorn_skurj]

isn't that why we were set up as a republic, rather than a true democracy?

That is true, but it seems to not be working as of late.

[u2roolz]

When I lived in MA, I received MA Health before I moved to NH. I had just gotten out of college and had no significant job leads. I was in shit county and needed something. Luckily, I lived in a state that offered free care. Needless to say when I received it, I felt like I was carrying a secret to keep to myself out of some sort of shame. I didn't manipulate it or take advantage of It at all. In fact, I think I only made one visit to my primary care physician and that was to check my blood for diabetes. Once I did get a job, at a fucking movie theater no less, I had to wait about 6 months to apply for their coverage. I'll never forget being told my someone ,who I won't reveal their relationship to me in anyway, but they said "I'm glad that you're getting something like that and not some (insert your racial slur of choice)." I was pretty pissed at this comment. Talk about blind ignorance. You know someone who is in a particular boat (me) and yet you call out a whole other racial group? Idiot.

 

So by telling a little bit about my story with healthcare and reading stuff here and seeing stuff on the news I wanted to ask something. Isn't it a bit ironic that some Americans want to help donate money to Haiti, but some Americans won't stand for universal health care because they don't want to "help those bums or (insert your group of choice)? I understand some people milking the system, but surely these people can think outside the welfare box and think about other people in such humbling experiences. I guess we react well in such tragedies and give from the heart.

 

"We were a family. How'd it break up and come apart, so that now we're turned against each other? Each standing in the other's light. How'd we lose that good that was given us? Let it slip away. Scattered it, careless. What's keepin' us from reaching out, touching the glory?" - The Thin Red Line

[Guest Jules]

They’ve vilified themselves, what with their lockstep support of the evil shit perpetrated by Bush, their defense of torture, the glee with which they are celebrating the loss of healthcare for millions of Americans – they don’t need any help from me.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Isn't it a bit ironic that some Americans want to help donate money to Haiti, but some Americans won't stand for universal health care because they don't want to "help those bums or (insert your group of choice)?

 

As far as I can tell, it's the same Americans that oppose both, judging by the letters to the editor I read in various papers.

[auctioneer69]

After a very depressing morning, I am now hopeful that Obama and the Democrats will go back and fashion a more modest plan (although goodness knows its modest enough as stands.) At that point they could truly call the Republicans bluff. This truly is too important an issue not to be left untouched any longer. One thing that has impressed me about Obama is that he has maintained that this is about both increasing access to coverage and finding ways to decrease costs. Both are essential to the health of individuals and the nation. To those who continue to harp on about the false fears of socialism and Government controls let's discuss what our current free-market system has gotten us. Health-care consumes 16+% of our GDP, with tens of millions uninsured and with health outcomes that are no better (save some cancer survivor rates) than other countries who spend far less on healthcare. If healthcare spending is to be brought under control and more people are to have coverage a sensible debate would be how we achieve this through government and non-government methods. I think Obama could regain a lot of popular support and pass a bill by incorporating some Republican ideas into the bill. Politics is a funny sport. Above all, politicians have a knack for survival. Such was the reversal at the polling booths yesterday that Democrats if smart will actually listen to the publics concerns in order to have any chance in November. Literally in the last few hours Democrat politicians based on their public utterances seem to have realized that they have over-reached and that the way forward is through moderation not rail-roading a bill to passage.

[ikol]

Plenty of doctors don't accept insurance. If you are anti-Medicare, can't you simply refuse to accept insuance? (I realize this doesnt apply to someone coming to you in an emergency).

 

I am out of my league a bit here because I am far from an expert on these topics, but this seems like an intriguing paradox. Rail against government provided healthcare while insisting that you get paid more from it? What am I missing?

 

That depends on where you work. If you own your own clinic, you can refuse Medicare, but if you work in a hospital that takes Medicare, you pretty much have to take it. I don't see the paradox. If there was a national referendum on Medicare, I would vote against it, but that's not a realistic situation. Medicare is not going anywhere, so if it is going to exist, it should reimburse doctors fairly.

 

So by telling a little bit about my story with healthcare and reading stuff here and seeing stuff on the news I wanted to ask something. Isn't it a bit ironic that some Americans want to help donate money to Haiti, but some Americans won't stand for universal health care because they don't want to "help those bums or (insert your group of choice)? I understand some people milking the system, but surely these people can think outside the welfare box and think about other people in such humbling experiences. I guess we react well in such tragedies and give from the heart.

 

There's a difference between voluntarily donating your money to a charitable cause and paying for something with tax money that is not optional. I can decide what charity I want to donate to and how much to donate. The same cannot be said for government programs.

[auctioneer69]

I am against Medicare in principle but recognize the reality that it exists and thus think it should reimburse fairly to the extent that it can. I would love to see Medicare abolished and replaced by private healthcare and charity, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon. If it's going to be paying for a large percentage of healthcare, then it should pay physicians a fair price for their services. Doctors should not be overbooking their clinics just to stay open because Medicare arbitrarily tells them that their service is worth less than it actually is.

 

You should be happy because those people who don't have insurance in this are in affect charity cases. I know someone who has taken extended leave from their job recently to become a full-time care-giver and case-worker for her father who is in his mid-fifties, has cancer and has no insurance. Her main job is being his health-advocate finding doctors and other health professionals to treat him and finding ways to get his care for free or paid for by charities. Also in your ideologically-driven fog you've forgotten that those under Medicare are indeed treated by private healthcare. It is merely the funding that is public. The only doctors that work for the Government are those in the VA system. Wouldn't it be a good idea and in keeping with your fine principles if we could dismantle that system also? Perhaps we could give every member of our armed service past and present a voucher that they were free to spend on health insurance or any non health-related item. Funny that in this whole false debate about a Government takeover of healthcare that we've heard no news on the ills of the only government run healthcare system in this country (the VA).

[ikol]

You should be happy because those people who don't have insurance in this are in affect charity cases.

 

I don't know about their affect, because I can't see their facial expressions, and I also don't understand what your point is.

 

Also in your ideologically-driven fog you've forgotten that those under Medicare are indeed treated by private healthcare. It is merely the funding that is public.

 

I have ideologically-driven foglights, so I should be alright, plus I haven't forgotten that at all. My issue with Medicare is the public funding. Pay better attention!

 

The only doctors that work for the Government are those in the VA system. Wouldn't it be a good idea and in keeping with your fine principles if we could dismantle that system also? Perhaps we could give every member of our armed service past and present a voucher that they were free to spend on health insurance or any non health-related item.

 

That might not be a bad idea, though I suspect they might spend most of the money on cigarettes. And I'm glad that you find my principles to be fine.

 

Funny that in this whole false debate about a Government takeover of healthcare that we've heard no news on the ills of the only government run healthcare system in this country (the VA).

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I brought this up the last time we had this debate here. As someone who has rotated through the VA several times in med school, I will vouch for the fact that pretty much everything (from the building design to the nursing staff) is worse at the VA.

[OOO]

I don't have health insurance and the VA and military hospitals I went to recently were fairly nice to me and did their job quite well - gratis. However, if I get sick or injured in the next couple of months I will be F'ed in the A.

[mountain bed]

Now that there isn't a filibuster-proof majority (like there ever was one, heh) maybe with 41 votes on the Right the Dems can grow a pair and really call their bluff. LET EM FILIBUSTER. Let em filibuster EVERYTHING Go back to old-school style filibusters. Make em stand up there and read the fucking phone book, or whatever, for hours on end. Let CSPAN show the Right's intransigence, their obstinancy, for the country to see with their own eyes. People will see that it is the Right who doesn't give a shit about at least trying to make an effort to solve the problems we face.

 

Clinton called Dole's and Gingrich's bluff when they threatened to shut the government down entirely and it came back to bite those guys in the ass in the off-year elections in '98. I really think the Right should be careful about playing games when there is so much on the line.

[auctioneer69]

I don't know about their affect, because I can't see their facial expressions, and I also don't understand what your point is.

 

 

 

I have ideologically-driven foglights, so I should be alright, plus I haven't forgotten that at all. My issue with Medicare is the public funding. Pay better attention!

 

 

 

That might not be a bad idea, though I suspect they might spend most of the money on cigarettes. And I'm glad that you find my principles to be fine.

 

 

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I brought this up the last time we had this debate here. As someone who has rotated through the VA several times in med school, I will vouch for the fact that pretty much everything (from the building design to the nursing staff) is worse at the VA.

 

 

Seriously, charity as a healthcare option for the wealthiest country and biggest economy in the world at the start of the 21st century? Pitiful. Let's bring back the workhouse for debtors who can't pay their medical bills at the same time. As a man of science you might prefer a more reasoned approach. Take your pick of umpteen different health-care models that work well in any number of different countries and based on their results add the best parts to what is offered here. Of course that would force you to take of your ideological blinders.