British punk rock

[tinnitus photography]

split off from another thread...this post was in response to a TV appearance that The Damned made while lip synching to "Love Song."

 

Highlights my general contempt for British punk (except for the Clash). It was all a pose and just another avenue for campy dress and behavior. New York City punk was the real deal.

 

Forget about the sartorial trappings, those guys could write SONGS! I think that the 1st wave of british punk was notable for this (cf Pistols, Stranglers, Buzzcocks, Wire, Stiff Little Fingers, Jam, etc).

 

and NYC punk usually loops in a bunch of people who really had nothing to do w/ the genre imo... Blondie, James Chance, Television, Talking Heads, etc...the only real punk band of that era was the Ramones! Cleveland had a better punk scene by far.

[PopTodd]

and NYC punk usually loops in a bunch of people who really had nothing to do w/ the genre imo... Blondie, James Chance, Television, Talking Heads, etc...the only real punk band of that era was the Ramones! Cleveland had a better punk scene by far.

Richard Hell & The Voidoids

The Jim Carroll Band

 

But, in regards to Cleveland's punk scene:

Who else besides The Dead Boys, Rocket From the Tombs, and Pere Ubu (or any other Laughner-related band)?

Oh, and there are some that would question Pere Ubu in the same way that you question Television and Blondie.

[cryptique]

There are also those who would dismiss both the U.K. and New York scenes and claim that the L.A. hardcore scene was the real deal.

 

Me, I like stuff from all of those scenes. As far as being a "pose," it all was, to a degree ... no matter which scene.

[lost highway]

Yeah, it's been over a decade since I called myself a "punk rocker" (hee hee) and I still find a lot of these bands that have been mentioned are holding up well. Aggressive, melodic and primitive rock an roll- what's not to love? I would throw X, and Stiff Little Fingers to the list of classic punk bands mentioned. Then you take it further into the 80's and 90's and the list just gets longer.

[tinnitus photography]

Richard Hell & The Voidoids

The Jim Carroll Band

 

But, in regards to Cleveland's punk scene:

Who else besides The Dead Boys, Rocket From the Tombs, and Pere Ubu (or any other Laughner-related band)?

Oh, and there are some that would question Pere Ubu in the same way that you question Television and Blondie.

 

yeah, Ubu was far too weird to be lumped into the punk rock ghetto. other Cle bands would include Mirrors, Styrenes, Electric Eels...DEVO wasn't exactly in the same sound or region, but not too far away.

 

i will definitely give you Richard Hell. Carroll, less so.

 

There are also those who would dismiss both the U.K. and New York scenes and claim that the L.A. hardcore scene was the real deal.

 

definitely a different flavor between punk rock and hardcore for me. hardcore kinda starts w/ Touch and Go and Dischord...punk rock would be Dangerhouse, Posh Boy, What Records, etc.

[PopTodd]

Not that it will change you opinion of where to lump their music, but did you know that the guys in Television actually BUILT the stage at CBGBs? Literally. They were there with hammer and nails, building the stage there on the Bowery. I learned that little nugget when I interviewed Richard Lloyd when I was in college.

 

And, this isn't punk?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBbuPnfG0Vo&feature=related

[tinnitus photography]

TV, while being a solid band, lost their punk edge (imo) when Hell left. not many punk LPs had guitar solo credits

 

 

don't get me wrong, i think that Carroll had some solid songs ('It's Too Late' is a fantastic song) but he's certainly not at the level of the UK bands i mentioned.

 

 

also, Patti Smith was not a punk rock musician. the CB's scene was an amalgam of different musics.

[PopTodd]

I guess it just defines how you define "punk."

Is it a sound, or is it an approach to making music?

All those CBGB bands certainly shook it up and did it their own way. None of them sounded anything alike; so in that sense, you really can't pin any label on any of them. Only The Ramones, as you pointed out, sounded anything like what we've come to agree upon as punk. And Hell pretty much invented the Punk look. Malcolm MacLaren admitted to stealing The Sex Pistols' look from him.

But I still think that all those NYC bands were punk. They all had their own kind of menace, and their own aesthetic. Their own "fuck you" approach to making music, even if it wasn't all barre chords and distortion.

[tinnitus photography]

agreed...there is punk as an attitude, and punk as a genre.

[PopTodd]

Oh, and you called The Jam "punk"?

Going strictly by genre/sound definitions, I would disagree; there was far too much Motown in their sound. Maybe the first album or 2, but even there, they had a soul sound that set them apart. So, no.

 

And, even The Clash, with their reggae leanings, had many very non-punk moments, even on their first album. (A Junior Murvin cover?)

[Jerrygarciaparra]

Where does Suicide fit in?

[tinnitus photography]

Oh, and you called The Jam "punk"?

Going strictly by genre/sound definitions, I would disagree; there was far too much Motown in their sound. Maybe the first album or 2, but even there, they had a soul sound that set them apart. So, no.

 

And, even The Clash, with their reggae leanings, had many very non-punk moments, even on their first album. (A Junior Murvin cover?)

 

for The Jam i was talking 1st record (thought i think their finest is certainly _Setting Sons_...that 1st record is among their weakest). The Clash quickly moved past the genre, starting w/ their second LP. Don Letts was probably the biggest influence on The Clash's reggae fixation.

 

 

Where does Suicide fit in?

 

right next to the Screamers.

 

punk.

 

 

seeing them perform their first record was amazing.

[GtrPlyr]

If the music is good I can overlook the posturing and sartorial choices of a band. And I agree with cryptique, whether you're looking at the L.A., N.Y.C., or U.K. Punk scenes, there was some posturing/image fostering happening on both sides of the Atlantic. In the end all those scenes produced some great bands along the way.

[howdjadoo]

US versus UK Punk(Puke to me)

[howdjadoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_-HR3R72hc

[GtrPlyr]

To be fair, Sid Vicious was one of the least talented guys to ever emerge from the Punk scene. The guy was totally useless and overrated.

[PopTodd]

To be fair, Sid Vicious was one of the least talented guys to ever emerge from the Punk scene. The guy was totally useless and overrated.

For the most part, yeah.

But you still have to love his version of "My Way".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIXg9KUiy00

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

For the most part, yeah.

But you still have to love his version of "My Way".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIXg9KUiy00

 

Nihilism and egocentricity are an unattractive and deadly combination.

[Winston Legthigh]

The Avengers! 1 point for the Bay Area scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31QmJHlMXs

[tinnitus photography]

The Avengers rule. I finally saw them this year, great show.

[keeprighton2]

Yep there were some terrible English punk bands but thats not the point.

 

It was a social phenomenon that changed music forever, gave a kick up the bacskide to the self-satisfied bland rubbish that was being churned out in the mid 70's It encouraged anyone to pick up an instrument and make a noise however primitive.

 

Without DIY music there would be no indie. Challenged the major labels and paved the way for independent labels.

 

Hooray for English punk. And there was some great music too.

[froggie]

i'll chime in with an Australian equivalent: Stranded!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFvhd--qDDU

[PopTodd]

I forgot that The Saints were Aussies.

 

Also, GtrPlyr and other Canadians:

Was there much of a Canadian punk scene up there? Anyone that we would know?

[tinnitus photography]

DOA and The Subhumans are the ones that immediately come to mind.

[Albert Tatlock]

A few minutes enjoyment reading this today ...

 

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/mar/12/stranglers-40-years-fights-drugs-ufos