Highly Praised Music Artists That Don't Do a Thing for You

[jff]

Hell, I wouldn't be opposed to changing my image for no reason other than the fact that my style of dress, even in my own opinion, is pretty slobby. If a guaranteed comfortable lifetime income playing music was part of the bargain, well, fax me the papers and I'll sign right now.

[Moss]

Van Morrison

Phish

 

I will second these 2

[Guest Speed Racer]

I see photos of them with a million and a half cool instruments on stage, and then the new single comes out and all I hear are guitars. Ooooh great a cheap Bruce Springsteen knock-off with some New Wave tendencies obsessing over suburban angst, or political soap boxing.

 

Arcade Fire is Weezer for people who are too grown up to like Weezer.

[Guest Speed Racer]

why are people so willing to compromise in order to do something they probably hate, but aren't willing to compromise in order to do something they love?

 

Everyone compromises at the office. It's expected. While almost everyone compromises to make a living in the arts, I think there's a certain aura of the genuine that people romanticize. "I make music, and this music is who I am," versus, "I wear a tie to work, because photocopying for my asswipe of a boss is who I am."

 

We would rather say, "I compromise at work because I will do anything for my family," or, "because the money helps me pursue my dream of a music career where I won't have to compromise." But we would rather not hear people say, "I compromise in my music because selling 750,000 records is way cooler than selling 150 to friends and relatives and my asswipe of a boss."

[lamradio]

Arcade Fire is Weezer for people who are too grown up to like Weezer.

 

Maybe I haven't heard enough Acrade Fire, but I don't hear the comparison. Bruce Sprintsteen, definitely...

 

I don't know if I'm too grown up or not to like Weezer.... All I know is that everything they have put out post-Maladroit has been complete novelty garbage. Someone on this board once said that Weezer has become a novelty of themselves.

[PopTodd]

I'll take Sly & the Family Stone and Funkadelic over this hack any day .

Well, duh! And I hate the autotune thing, too.

But I still like Kanye.

 

PS - DJ Shadow's albums are densely layered with other people's songs, too. But I haven't heard too many music snobs bitch about him.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Maybe I haven't heard enough Acrade Fire, but I don't hear the comparison. Bruce Sprintsteen, definitely...

 

I don't know if I'm too grown up or not to like Weezer....

 

Oh, I was referring to Arcade Fire's faux-angst lyrics and soap-boxing. It's Blue Album-style whining for people who think they're too mature to be into the pop-grunge stylings of Weezer.

[Doug C]

Due to the lack of response to my question, it is safe to assume that either a)no one could think of an example, or b)no one cares. Since I am the one that asked, b)is the odds on favorite.

 

Seriously though, I have been trying and cannot think of an example of someone that fits the bill of what u2roolz's Katy Perry-esque public access singer was talking about. To quote his post, "Part of what she talked about before the aired interview was how the business works and you need to fill that popular void and then if you catch on you can kind of change your image and style and hope that people will stick around once you catch on because you are "pop" music.".

 

I ask again if anyone can think of an example of someone that made it big as a 'vanilla pop tart' then transitioned to a 'flavorful artisan scone' and stayed on the popular 'musical breakfast menu'? (I apologize for the verbal ipecac but that's why I don't make a living at creative writing). I mean, for example, the Hansons are making non-Mmmm bop! music and touring but they certainly are no longer popular or newly respected.

[Winston Legthigh]

I ask again if anyone can think of an example of someone that made it big as a 'vanilla pop tart' then transitioned to a 'flavorful artisan scone' and stayed on the popular 'musical breakfast menu'? (I apologize for the verbal ipecac but that's why I don't make a living at creative writing). I mean, for example, the Hansons are making non-Mmmm bop! music and touring but they certainly are no longer popular or newly respected.

Well, there were four lads from Liverpool... But, they're an example of artistic growth, rather than one of suppressing true artistic inclinations to make it big. Their song-writing skills grew from the days of Love me Do. John wasn't sitting on "Revolution", waiting to spring it on unsuspecting girliefans only after he had cornered the song-writing market.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Admittedly I only spent a couple of minutes thinking about it but can any of us name someone that began as a Katie Perry-type pop star and then transitioned to a 'serious' critically-acclaimed and respected 'artist' that "stuck around"?

 

The Beatles?

Buddy Holly

The Rolling Stones?

 

Sure, a lot of it is hindsight, but I see a lot of, "Damn, look at how complex this shit was!" stuff now.

 

Bob Dylan also had a lot of the ladies screaming at him in the early '60s, and has certainly moved on from that.

[Doug C]

Yeah, I thought of the Beatles but even though they were pop stars first, they were also somewhat respected at first. The time of Buddy Holly and The Beatles was also a different musical time. Has that type of growth happened in the last 20-30 years? Will it likely ever happen again?

 

Thanks, ya'll!

[jff]

 

 

I ask again if anyone can think of an example of someone that made it big as a 'vanilla pop tart' then transitioned to a 'flavorful artisan scone' and stayed on the popular 'musical breakfast menu'?

 

It'll be interesting to ask this question again in 15 years. Surely someone will eventually emerge from pop tart status and put out some more respected work.

[Doug C]

Marianne Faithfull was a Katy Perry level popstar at some point? She stayed popular at another point? My memory is worse than I thought, then. Yes, she started making more critically acclaimed music but I wouldn't say that her popularity grew or remained.

 

Not trying to be a smartass.

 

edit Hey! Where did the Marianne Faithfull example go? The mists of time? Ha ha!

[Winston Legthigh]

None of the artists given as examples of Pop->Serious are artists who pretended to be pop just so they could get their "real" material published later, which is what the original scenario describes. Right?

 

Beatles, Buddy Holly, Stones, Dylan, Marianne Faithfull, etc. were all doing what they wanted to do at the time they were doing it - they weren't selling out at the beginning of their careers just to get their foot in the door, so that at a later time they could afford to be true to their real artistic inclinations.

[GtrPlyr]

Well, duh! And I hate the autotune thing, too.

But I still like Kanye.

 

To me Kanye's music is the aural equivalent of USA Today: Lightly entertaining, lots of filler I don't care about, and ultimately forgotten and lining the birdcage a week later.

 

I just think it's lazy and very uncreative to take an already successful song(s) and build your music around it. It shows a lack of originality. Take something cool that people already like and put your rap over it: of course people are going to be drawn to it due to its familiarity. I think I'll build a song around Cee Lo's "Fuck You" and Outkasts "Hey Ya" in a few years time, maybe sprinkle in some Otis Redding to show I'm down with the old school too. People will think I'm a genius .

[Winston Legthigh]

I just think it's lazy and very uncreative to take an already successful song(s) and build your music around it. It shows a lack of originality. Take something cool that people already like and put your rap over it: of course people are going to be drawn to it due to its familiarity. I think I'll build a song around Cee Lo's "Fuck You" and Outkasts "Hey Ya" in a few years time, maybe sprinkle in some Otis Redding to show I'm down with the old school too. People will think I'm a genius .

Well, at least one of the old school guard is taking legal action:

 

http://www.avclub.com/articles/and-now-george-clinton-is-suing-the-black-eyed-pea,49049/

[jff]

Marianne Faithfull was a Katy Perry level popstar at some point? She stayed popular at another point? My memory is worse than I thought, then. Yes, she started making more critically acclaimed music but I wouldn't say that her popularity grew or remained.

 

Not trying to be a smartass.

 

edit Hey! Where did the Marianne Faithfull example go? The mists of time? Ha ha!

 

I thought I removed that before posting. weird.

 

Maryanne Faithful was a minor pop star doing lightweight fluff music in the '60s. Later (and currently) she does more serious music, and is respected as an artist (ask Nels). She's not a huge star or anything, but when she was last here she filled a theater.

 

She's an example that you can go from empty pop princess to respected artist. Maybe not as a million seller, but it can be done.

 

Beach Boys might be a good example.

[jff]

None of the artists given as examples of Pop->Serious are artists who pretended to be pop just so they could get their "real" material published later, which is what the original scenario describes. Right?

 

 

You're probably right. I wasn't using that as the benchmark. That'd be tougher to find an example for, but it surely happens.

[lamradio]

The whole "Beatles creating/playing what they loved, yet it became pop music" is pretty interesting to me. Rock was the pop music of that era.... When is the last time that has happened? Nirvana maybe... I suppose Kurt was as big as a pop star.

[u2roolz]

Due to the lack of response to my question, it is safe to assume that either a)no one could think of an example, or b)no one cares. Since I am the one that asked, b)is the odds on favorite.

 

Seriously though, I have been trying and cannot think of an example of someone that fits the bill of what u2roolz's Katy Perry-esque public access singer was talking about. To quote his post, "Part of what she talked about before the aired interview was how the business works and you need to fill that popular void and then if you catch on you can kind of change your image and style and hope that people will stick around once you catch on because you are "pop" music.".

 

I ask again if anyone can think of an example of someone that made it big as a 'vanilla pop tart' then transitioned to a 'flavorful artisan scone' and stayed on the popular 'musical breakfast menu'? (I apologize for the verbal ipecac but that's why I don't make a living at creative writing). I mean, for example, the Hansons are making non-Mmmm bop! music and touring but they certainly are no longer popular or newly respected.

 

I'll answer your question by using 3 different eras. It certainly works in reverse too. I think you are putting too much emphasis on "flavorful artisan scone", as if once that artist sells X amount of records they go and play coffee shops or something.

 

Late 80s/Early 90s Mariah Carey: She burst onto the scene in Adult Contemporary. You could argue that when she began at the time that was the pop music. It was music that somehow was geared to adults who were supposedly still buying records in that era. She definitely fell in with her contemporaries immediately and then broke that image and became a pop diva. Either the switch was something that she really wanted to do and make money off of because of the shift in pop music or the powers that be shifted her image.

 

Late 90s/Early 00s Christina Aquilera: She went from Genie In A Bottle to almost everyone's list as the sole pop singer of her peers with "the voice". I remember Britney, Mandy Moore, Jessica Simpson and Aguilera all breaking out at the same time. Christina is the only one that I can think of that has taken that leap to make Adult Contemporary. I'm not trying to link that term with artistic credibility. It is what it is and she even went back and forth between that and her old mold. Of course, there is the possibility that those one or two AC albums were to gain credibility from those who dismiss her as a pop star with a better than decent voice.

 

Now Grace Potter: Another one of those reverse ones. Anyways, if you look at old pictures of her she wore little makeup and was like an awesome hipppie chick with said clothing. All of a sudden she's wearing lame dresses, high heels and looks like a Victoria's Secret model. And now the music seems a lot poppier and people are catching onto them. It's possible that someone in their camp finally wanted exposure and they went to great lengths to change their image. It's also possible that they didn't blow up big enough, so that they can go back to their old mold and just bring in new listeners.

 

The point that I was trying to make was that someone up and coming usually is someone hand picked to fit a certain popular mold, even if they have other differing musical influences. Then when that artist changes that it is either career suicide or not enough people care at that point to know where you went or some people stick with you and you sell less records, but find a different audience. I never really said "pop tart". The example was not exclusive to that subgenre of pop music. Heck, even Katy Perry began as a gospel singer, then suspiciously emerged as who she is today.

 

Maybe it is tough to find a decent example because those who pull these things off aren't very successful and not memorable in the first place. I'd even throw in Jewel as an example, before I leave. She came out and fit that solo female singer songwriter thing that was popular in the late 90s. Then she kind of did what she was still doing and less people cared about her and maybe she changed that. I think she tried a comeback as a country singer. I guess my point with her is the point that I've been trying to get across: she came up through the system and then went about her merry way when she did her time.

 

Now with this young woman that I saw and met, I'm pretty sure that she is using this opportunity to make it big through very big compromises. The whole thing just doesn't add up. No one is really looking for the next Cash & Cline to make huge sales. I'm sure that she really wants to do country music, but that's not what these "industry folk" have in mind for her. They want to see if she will catch on and make dough for them. And if she does maybe at some point down the road they can let her do what she wants and see if that sticks. And if it does not stick, then it seems like they'd kick her to the curb and start with someone else.

 

Edit: As others have mentioned, it has an awful lot to do with a particular era because pop music is constantly changing. And I'd also throw in that with these different eras the respective audience has either stuck with these acts out of pure nostalgia for their pop music or they like the "artistic/not many people are buying his/her shit as much as before". Elton John & Billy Joel come to mind. They certainly made pop music of the 70s and 80s, but they also continued to make music after that and aren't as popular on the record sales. Yet somehow they are selling out stadiums as a one two nostalgia punch quarterless jukebox. Hell, they both had similar first albums focusing on a man and his piano. They both also started in other bands. I think Billy Joel was in some strange Gwar of the 70s called Attila. Edit Part Troix: I also use EJ/BJ as an example because most people know/feel that Billy Joel was put into play to be America's response to Elton John by record industry execs to make money. Billy had some catching up to do because his breakthrough record Piano Man came out in '73 the same year that Elton had Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

 

You could also argue that back then the artists defined the pop music scene out of their own musical ambitions and styles and nowadays the industry defines the pop music scene using formulas and pythagorean theorem.

[GtrPlyr]

Well, at least one of the old school guard is taking legal action:

 

http://www.avclub.com/articles/and-now-george-clinton-is-suing-the-black-eyed-pea,49049/

Good for George. Glad to hear he doesn't clear sample requests for everyone. You definitely can't blame him for not wanting the Black Eyed Peas to desecrate his music. Though, judging by the number of times I've heard his music sampled by others, I'd say this might be the exception, not the rule. Though to be fair a lot of the samples used over the years were probably not cleared before use like was the case with the Black Eyed Peas.

[jff]

 

Now with this young woman that I saw and met, I'm pretty sure that she is using this opportunity to make it big through very big compromises. The whole thing just doesn't add up. No one is really looking for the next Cash & Cline to make huge sales. I'm sure that she really wants to do country music, but that's not what these "industry folk" have in mind for her. They want to see if she will catch on and make dough for them. And if she does maybe at some point down the road they can let her do what she wants and see if that sticks. And if does not stick, then it seems like they'd kick her to the curb and start with someone else.

 

I don't think the label letting her do her thing is the way it normally happens. I think, most of the time, the artist has a string of huge successes, gets a better agent and lawyer, and demands her contract be re-written more in her favor, or she walks and does what she wants with another label, or independently.

 

 

I'll throw Aimee Mann out there as someone who might be an interesting case study for this topic.

[Doug C]

u2roolz, you said "I think you are putting too much emphasis on "flavorful artisan scone", as if once that artist sells X amount of records they go and play coffee shops or something.". That is not what I meant at all. I meant the opposite. It sounded as though she, your interviewee, was saying that you could start making the 'good' music you wanted at some point and remain mega-popular. I found it very interesting in theory but couldn't think of it happening in practice.

 

That Aimee Mann example sounds like the best so far. I would think that most of the Voices Carry fans have not heard an Aimee Mann song but she is still fairly popular and also respected.

 

I enjoyed reading and found interesting u2roolz's original post and all of the replys to mine. Thanks again.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'll throw Aimee Mann out there as someone who might be an interesting case study for this topic.

 

Three cheers for this.

[Guest Speed Racer]

u2roolz - were you saying that Jewel did't get be a country artist because her label didn't want her to be? She didn't become a widely successful country artist because, more than anything else, her work was smarmy and shitty.

 

And let's not forget - people who are widely popular in one genre are not necessarily writing good music. Either the music is being written for them, or the music was shit to begin with. People who crossover need to be armed with either a new legion of songwriters or actual, honest-to-god chops. And then, of course, luck. There's only so much room for so many widely-successful artists, and by the time Jewel crossed over she was already a joke.

 

Aimee Mann has chops. She's a damned good songwriter. She also had the luck of catching the eye of a few notable people (Jon Brion, Paul Thomas Anderson) who inspired and refined her bona fide talent.