Presidential Race (Respector Edition)

[Tweedling]

Obviously it would take a great deal of time to sort through the agenda and policies of Bush then and compare them to Romneys now. Time I don't care to put in. You want to blame me for taking up conservative talking points but ignore that this simple one line tracing Romney to Bush is exactly what the liberals have done since the debate...or before. I do know that Romney governed well in Massachusetts and has been extremely successful in private business. Something Bush did not do well in. Romney seems to want to trim down the government and that is something we all know Bush did not do.

It's a nice base hit for liberals to try and draw comparisons to Bush and Romney but its not that hard to do when both are conservatives and believe in less regulation where it may hurt business and less taxes where it may do the same.

We will all have to wait and see but for right now it's a much closer race as the American people see more of Romney. IMO

You can also group some of the things I've mentioned about Romney as reasons that I am choosing to vote for him and not Obama.

[Tweedling]

Oh and thanks for the spelling lesson, Louie.

[KevinG]

You want to blame me for taking up conservative talking points but ignore that this simple one line tracing Romney to Bush is exactly what the liberals have done since the debate...or before.

 

I don't think anyone (well maybe IRDB) is blaming you for using the conservative talking points here. Hell I use progressive talking points all the time. There ain't no shame in doing so. It can bring focus and help you sharpen attacks and defend your position.

 

I do know that Romney governed well in Massachusetts and has been extremely successful in private business.

 

Debatable, since Mass was 47th in job creation when he left. Also he socialized the Health Care system. Also he doesn't run too much on his record as Governor. Extremely successful in private business yes. Does that success correlate to a successful Presidency? Guess that will remain to be scene. I don't recall if we have every really had a successful businessman as president in the modern era.

 

 

It's a nice base hit for liberals to try and draw comparisons to Bush and Romney but its not that hard to do when both are conservatives and believe in less regulation where it may hurt business and less taxes where it may do the same.

 

Maybe conservative ideas on a whole are flawed. See if we follow less regulation (like repealing Glass-Steagall) and tax cuts for the wealthy we get into this mess we are in now. So the answer is more tax cuts and less regulation of Wall Street?

 

And yes it is a "nice base hit" to draw a comparison between GWB and Romney. But Romney has been so vague in his plans all a person can do is look to GWB (the last president who gave us tax cuts, expanded the military, and decreased regulation on banks). Maybe if Romney wasn't so vague that line wouldn't be drawn. He could stand on his own policies. Right now he cannot. He and his running mate can say their 20% tax cut across the board is revenue neutral, but just saying something a truth does not make. Paul you are self proclaimed numbers guy, let's hope to hear some of those numbers tomorrow night.

[Sparky speaks]

I think Bill Clinton is a giant douche-bag prick. Look what he did to Monica Lewinsky.

 

Why Isn't The Media Giving The NDAA More Attention?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhlszpX15w

[Sparky speaks]

Lou, read this from our buddy Ron Paul and tell me what is so unreasonable about it. He is not saying those in desperate need of assistance shouldn't get it but that there is no money left to give it to them because so many people are receiving it or are going to receive it in the future and we aren't going to be able to provide it due to government default or inflation.

 

"This is less an issue of dignity or dependence on government, and more about the deceitfulness of government promises" according to the man. It makes too much sense I guess.

 

Government Dependency Will End in Chaos

 

http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2017:government-dependency-will-end-in-chaos&catid=64:2012-texas-straight-talk&Itemid=69

[Vacant Horizon]

(of course that would put hundreds of millions of people out of work, but that's a minor detail.)

 

LouieB

 

not a minor issue at all. imagine these folks working to help others...actually have well funded and well staffed clinics, schools, food banks, etc. if given a good wage and pension, this would be a great job and well worth the investment. much better use of money than some CEO's net worth that just sits generation after generation.

[Vacant Horizon]

Lou, read this from our buddy Ron Paul and tell me what is so unreasonable about it. He is not saying those in desperate need of assistance shouldn't get it but that there is no money left to give it to them because so many people are receiving it or are going to receive it in the future and we aren't going to be able to provide it due to government default or inflation.

 

"This is less an issue of dignity or dependence on government, and more about the deceitfulnessof government promises" according to the man. It makes too much sense I guess.

 

Government Dependency Will End in Chaos

 

http://paul.house.go...-talk&Itemid=69

 

this is highly questionable. the money spent on these so called entitlements are nothing compared to corporate subsidies and military spending. of course, if you looked at a gov. balance sheet you wouldn't see a category for military or corp subsidies. it's a lot more insidious than that.

[Tweedling]

Any predictions on the VP debate? There were some here that were looking forward to the Presidential debate but I don't think that turned out quite like any of us expected. I'm looking forward to what great quotes we'll come away with from sloppy Joe. I've heard that they've kept him out of the media/public for the last week. I've been missing him. hehehe

[lost highway]

I can't wait to see the VP debate. I have no prediction. While Joe Biden is a seasoned veteran- he really knows his politics, he can be the Michael Scott of political prime time. Most of the recent Ryan footage I've seen he comes off pretentious, irritable and easy to confound.

 

I guess my prediction is this: here are two guys that are going to piss each other off.

[KevinG]

So I kinda want to talk about Libya. What happened in Libya is seen by the GOP as how the Obama Administration has failed in regards to foreign policy. Even today Rep. Darrell Issa called a hearing to discuss The Security failures of Bengazi. Setting aside the fact that Issa is using the death of an American Ambassador as a political prop, there are some interesting facts and numbers to take in account.

 

1. for fiscal 2011 the GOP control house cut Embassy Security Funding by 128 million

2. for fiscal 2012 the GOP control house cut Embassy Security Funding by 331 million

3. In 2009 Issa and Ryan voted for an amendment to cut 1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions.

4. And in the Ryan purposed budget non discretionary defense spending (ie non military) would be cut by 20% translating in to another 400 million from embassy security.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-forget-about-big-bird/2012/10/09/5f9a411c-1258-11e2-ba83-a7a396e6b2a7_story.html

 

So yeah when you point the finger you always have three pointing back at you.

 

Now on to the response to the attack. It seemed to be a mismanage from day one. The youtube video seemed the likely culprit, but it may have been more of an opportunity / cover for an already coordinated attack. Here is the thing, regardless of why it happened, does it matter what the official statement from the WH was? You want PBO to come out and say it was Al Qaeda and then what bomb the shit out of Libya? You just looking for someone to blame? How is it knowing it was AQ better than some really pissed off extremists? What is the end game here? Other then a big gotach moment. You think they purposely lied about it (and for what end there?)

 

And a quick note here about the VP debates, never underestimate Joe.

[ih8music]

I think the VP debate will be very entertaining and each guy will come out swinging. I think there will be plenty of moments for fans of either candidate to relish. Ultimately, I'll be shocked if it moves the polls in a meaningful way... but we'll see.

[Winston Legthigh]

Lets get to the best thing on the ballot this fall. Washington, Oregon and Colorado all have full legalization of marijuana up for vote. If anything, it will make for interesting states rights situations. Feds have pretty much ignored states rights so far with medical marijuana, so I don't see this as making much of a difference.

[lost highway]

I live in CO. The Feds have pretty much ignored the fact that everyone I know who really wants access can get a prescription and walk in to any one of the hundred odd stores in the city and buy marijuana strong enough to put a cat in a coma.

 

If you can say anything about our time of fiscal duress it is this: it seems to have taken the holier-than-thou heat off of private issues. Romney doesn't know what to say about abortion, so he'd rather not discuss. At this point it looks like a bad career move for a GOP pres candidate to say anything specifically negative about LGBT folks. All said, a slow but significant change in the tide.

[Tweedling]

I believe Biden will come out "unchained". Doh!

[LouieB]

 

If you can say anything about our time of fiscal duress it is this: it seems to have taken the holier-than-thou heat off of private issues. Romney doesn't know what to say about abortion, so he'd rather not discuss.

You must not have watched or read the news. Romney said two completely different things about abortion just within the last couple days.

 

LouieB

[Magnetized]

You must not have watched or read the news. Romney said two completely different things about abortion just within the last couple days.

 

LouieB

Oh, he's made more conflicting statements than that. The problem is, it's all weasel words that can probably be spun to find some minor distinction so that his campaign can say there's no contradiction. Like saying he's pro life and would defund Planned Parenthood and wishes that Roe v. Wade would be overturned, but then saying it's not a specific bullet point on his agenda to actively do any of those things. Both statements can--sort of--be true. But it's intellectually twisted and morally bankrupt to be such a weasel.

[Guest Jules]

It's actually pretty smart.

[Winston Legthigh]

Oh, he's made more conflicting statements than that. The problem is, it's all weasel words that can probably be spun to find some minor distinction so that his campaign can say there's no contradiction. Like saying he's pro life and would defund Planned Parenthood and wishes that Roe v. Wade would be overturned, but then saying it's not a specific bullet point on his agenda to actively do any of those things. Both statements can--sort of--be true. But it's intellectually twisted and morally bankrupt to be such a weasel.

 

The overturning of Roe v Wade has been the bait and switch trick the GOP has been falsely promising forever. They have no intent on doing anything about it, but they love getting those votes by claiming to be prolife.

[Guest Jules]

Again, pretty smart.

[KevinG]

I believe Biden will come out "unchained". Doh!

 

Yep Biden is a complete idiot. Who can barely dress himself, let alone put two words to together with out causing a national or international kerfuffle. The best the Dems can hope for is that he doesn't shit himself and throw it at the moderator.

 

Or Joe Biden is a competent legislator with over 36 years of experience, 17 years as chair or ranking member on the Judiciary Committee and the same for Foreign relations from 1997 to 2008.

 

It is too bad the right wing media some how see it fit to completely denigrate such an accomplished man. Not saying he is perfect and sometimes can put his foot in his mouth but he is a smart and accomplished politician. I think Ryan will have to beyond his A game to even coming close to Biden tonight.

[KevinG]

Again, pretty smart.

 

Jules so you are comfortable with electing a man who seems to have no moral core? Someone who will say whatever he thinks will get him elected? And are you comfortable with electing someone who you don't honestly know how he will govern if elected?

[LouieB]

Oh, he's made more conflicting statements than that.

I'm aware of that, but I was refering to the last 24 hour news cycle. This guy can't get his story straight for even a few hours.

 

LouieB

[Guest Jules]

Jules so you are comfortable with electing a man who seems to have no moral core? Someone who will say whatever he thinks will get him elected? And are you comfortable with electing someone who you don't honestly know how he will govern if elected?

 

I disagree on the moral core thing, whatever that is. All candidates say what they think will get them elected, so I see no difference there. Same answer for your 3rd question.

[LouieB]

I disagree on the moral core thing, whatever that is. All candidates say what they think will get them elected, so I see no difference there. Same answer for your 3rd question.

Maybe so, but Romney has elevated or sunk depending on your perspective, to new highs or lows even for a politician.

 

LouieB

[KevinG]

I disagree on the moral core thing, whatever that is. All candidates say what they think will get them elected, so I see no difference there. Same answer for your 3rd question.

 

Yes I understand that nature, a politician will change or revise an earlier position to suit the needs of the electorate (as governor I was for this and now I am against this is common). Mitt changes his story every day. Abortion, public workers, ACA. It is one thing to have a change in opinion from an earlier stance, it is another to change that stance to the exact opposite in less than 24 hours.

 

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/10/10/14341590-romney-aides-cant-keep-their-story-straight-on-reproductive-rights?lite

 

I don't know your stance on reproductive rights (and I frankly do not care). But this is an important issue and the next president will have a profound effect on this issue. So you are telling me you are willing to vote for someone when they don't have the conviction (ie moral core) to say what they actually believe and how they will govern.