General Political Thread

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I was responding to that general argument as it has often been presented over the last few years.

You were correct in your response, and yes, that has been a general argument presented over the last few years, presented by those on the far right.

 

The "social contract" in America has been almost completely broken by the acolytes of Ayn Rand, who believe the exact philosophy of "I got mine, screw everybody else." These are the same people who call our President "lazy." That's a dog whistle if I have ever heard one.

 

I will go a step further: if the ACA makes some doctors drop out of the health care "industry," then I say GOOD. Maybe we can get back to having more doctors who get into practicing medicine because they want to help people, not because they want to make a lot of money and found the idea of being a lawyer to be pretty boring.

 

That is how doctors were when I was a child, and for all of history...before the AMA. They made house calls. They spent real time talking with their patients. They cared for you as a person. That's what the fucking job is supposed to be. That kind of doctor still exists today, but they are a very small minority. Oh, and today, they call that "concierge care." What used to be normal care.

[John Smith]

Really where are those doctors who quit because of the ACA going to make a living? It's just not going to happen.

[Bob_Roberts]

 

 

That is how doctors were when I was a child, and for all of history...before the AMA. They made house calls. They spent real time talking with their patients. They cared for you as a person. That's what the fucking job is supposed to be. That kind of doctor still exists today, but they are a very small minority. Oh, and today, they call that "concierge care." What used to be normal care.

And when I was a child, all the men looked like Ward Cleaver and smoked pipes, and their wives looked just like June.  You could drop in anytime to see the town lawyer and he'd spin you a good yarn for hours and afterwards go down to the Five and Dime for a soda.  A ham sandwich was only 5 cents then and everybody respected their mothers.  Everybody had a heart of gold and would ride on flying horses that would arc across the sky as the clouds would part and rainbows appear bringing smiles to all the town's children.  Gosh things were good then!

[Hixter]

By Directly correlating the number of current patients being served by the current number of doctors as being adequate

I said exactly the opposite: we currently have a shortage of doctors.

 

It's implied in your statement.

No, it was not.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

And when I was a child, all the men looked like Ward Cleaver and smoked pipes, and their wives looked just like June.  You could drop in anytime to see the town lawyer and he'd spin you a good yarn for hours and afterwards go down to the Five and Dime for a soda.  A ham sandwich was only 5 cents then and everybody respected their mothers.  Everybody had a heart of gold and would ride on flying horses that would arc across the sky as the clouds would part and rainbows appear bringing smiles to all the town's children.  Gosh things were good then!

You are so hilarious, Bob! Great job with the sarcasm.

 

Read your history, and you will learn that up until the early 1960s - not exactly a million years ago - that is how doctors were. It is only in the modern era that it has become a magnet for those who wish to be, shall we say, handsomely remunerated.

 

Also, perhaps you missed my earlier post: When I was a kid (in 1971 - again, not a million years ago), I fractured my skull in an accident (hold the jokes, I've heard them all). I missed 14 days of school, so I'm guessing I was in the hospital about 2 weeks. My parents had insurance, which at that time was called an "indemnity plan," before the days of HMOs and PPOs. My parents total out of pocket cost was ZERO.

[John Smith]

You may not have meant to imply that but the implication that there are not going to be enough doctors to go around has been made using the same argument. Boil that argument down and it's not too difficult to come up with the notion that "I got mine now don't interfere with me"

[Hixter]

Also, perhaps you missed my earlier post: When I was a kid (in 1971 - again, not a million years ago), I fractured my skull in an accident (hold the jokes, I've heard them all). I missed 14 days of school, so I'm guessing I was in the hospital about 2 weeks. My parents had insurance, which at that time was called an "indemnity plan," before the days of HMOs and PPOs. My parents total out of pocket cost was ZERO.

1971 was 42 years ago; comparing 2013's world to the 1950s isn't that much of a bigger stretch.

 

Your injury wasn't diagnosed by a trip into a million-dollar MRI machine. Had you needed surgery, it wouldn't have been accomplished with the assistance of a robot that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

Times are different. Things have changed.

[John Smith]

Also, perhaps you missed my earlier post: When I was a kid (in 1971 - again, not a million years ago), I fractured my skull in an accident (hold the jokes, I've heard them all). I missed 14 days of school, so I'm guessing I was in the hospital about 2 weeks. My parents had insurance, which at that time was called an "indemnity plan," before the days of HMOs and PPOs. My parents total out of pocket cost was ZERO.

The Most common cause of personal bankruptcy In our country is not over extended credit, student loans etc... Nope it's for medical bills. We generally can't control when we get sick or injured or where, but illness or injury should not bankrupt you.

 

I can't ever once remember hearing my p 's talking about how to pay the medical bills , not once. I'm the past year alone my family has had two instances of medical emergencies that even with good insurance have cost us several thousand. Out of pocket for copayment and deductibles. And I have much better insurance than most. I can't imagine how we would have handled these without insurance or a well paying job.

[Hixter]

You may not have meant to imply that but the implication that there are not going to be enough doctors to go around has been made using the same argument. Boil that argument down and it's not too difficult to come up with the notion that "I got mine now don't interfere with me"

You've done so much boiling and stirring and added so many of your own spices that it's become a completely different dish than the one I served.

[Hixter]

I can't ever once remember hearing my p 's talking about how to pay the medical bills , not once.

I sure can. My grandparents, too. My folks took a couple of years to pay off the births of 2 children within 11 months in the early 1960s. The bills were probably only a few hundred dollars, but that's a big deal when you're earning $8,000 per year.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Your injury wasn't diagnosed by a trip into a million-dollar MRI machine. Had you needed surgery, it wouldn't have been accomplished with the assistance of a robot that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

Times are different. Things have changed.

Correct. And the costs have been passed on to the "consumer," that is, the patient.

 

It's not just the doctors who are complicit in our disastrous health care system. The pharmaceutical companies are disgustingly greedy. The insurance companies seriously rape you, even if you never use them (think how much they're already getting for car insurance, homeowners, life, etc. etc.) And of course, employers have become increasingly greedy too. Paying half of your insurance and acting like you should say thank you for even having a plan at all.

 

If I could stand the cold, I'd move to Europe and get into a socialized medicine system. The way we get screwed here is absolutely criminal. Watch Sicko, and you will see just how bad it really is. But we keep putting up with it, because unfettered capitalism is our god here in the good ol' USA.

[John Smith]

My father worked of a large oil company and my mom at a hospital so we we always covered with good insurance the kind that companies don't have any more. So despite being from a small catholic family, only 5 kids, medical hills and health insurance was never an issue.

[John Smith]

The New Yorker ran a great article on medicine in our country. It was a couple of years ago and they compared McAllen TX to Mayo. Mc Allen has the highest per patient costs in the country and it bold down to doctors viewing the patients as profit centers. Meanwhile at mayo the patients are viewed as medical problems to solve. Mayo is much less expensive and has a better success rate than McAllen. It was June 2009 there was a ton more in the article but it was pretty riveting.

 

One of the first question the guy asks is why does it cost so much in McAllen. The doctors instinctive answer was medical malpractice, the interviewer, a doctor himself reminds the interviewee that TX has some of the strictest laws against malpractice suits. It's good stuff.

[Guest Jules]

when I asked my friend about Obamacare part of his response was that he and many of his fellow doctors are concerned that people will just pay the penalty and still not have insurance, and they'll (the doctors) still provide care knowing they'll never get paid for it. 

 

bingo

[John Smith]

So just like today where so many are uninsured and can't pay?

[NoJ]

Whatever happened to benevolence?

[Guest Jules]

So just like today where so many are uninsured and can't pay?

 

Or don't want to.

[Hixter]

Correct. And the costs have been passed on to the "consumer," that is, the patient.

As are the costs of everything and anything you can imagine. Everything has to be paid for in the end -- even if it's single-payer health care that, in the end, isn't paid for by the government, but by taxes.

 

The pharmaceutical companies are disgustingly greedy. 

The cost of bringing a new drug to market is in the billions. Who is going to pay for it?

 

If I could stand the cold, I'd move to Europe and get into a socialized medicine system.

Before you go, check out the dire straits that most of their medical programs are in. They're increasing taxes, decreasing benefits and the quality of care is suffering. And to top it all off, they're having to allow millions of immigrants to help pay for the big pyramid scheme.

 

It all comes down to dollars and cents. Or pounds and pence. Medical care is expensive and somebody has to pay for it -- and that somebody is us. It's actually a small price to pay for living a few decades longer than our not-so-distant ancestors.

[tinnitus photography]

 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

You're absolutely right. Rich people should keep getting richer, and anyone who wants to charge as much as they want, for anything and everything, should do so. All those happy people in Norway and Finland and Sweden are just delusional socialists.

And I should just be thankful for the screwing we are getting.

Okay, my work is done here. Thanks for the economics lesson.

[Guest Jules]

Is that supposed to be funny? (to the letter above)

[Hixter]

 

 

That's some pretty ineffective blurring of his address, etc.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

The history of the GOP in three buttons.

[John Smith]

I'm no fan of big pharma but they are entitled to make a profit. And when I was getting my MBA we studied one of them Siemens I think. Any how they had developed a drug that was for treating some disease in the sub-Sahara tropics. They knew that they could never sell the drug because the people who neededit were so poor as were the countries they lived in so they gave the drug away for free. It was expensive but the right thing to do. So they are not always heartless bastards.

[ih8music]

The cost of bringing a new drug to market is in the billions.

Billions, really? Source?