Politics 2014

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Shit's about to get real here in Texas.

Forget the Governor's race.

There are possibly (not probably,  but possibly) 78 health care workers that were exposed to the Ebola virus.

We have just seen the second HCW positively diagnosed with the disease...and she flew on an airliner from Cleveland to Texas Monday.

There is the capacity to treat a grand total of 10 patients with the preferred isolation protocols...NATIONWIDE.

Shit's about to get real.

[Hixter]

How's this for fun? My good friend and neighbor is a neurologist who moonlights at the Dallas hospital where the Ebola patients are housed; he was there the weekend when the first victim arrived and was also there this past weekend when the second nurse was diagnosed.

 

To make things even better, *I* flew from Cleveland (Browns-Steelers game) to Texas Monday. My (different) neighbor is a healthcare worker and we dosed up on hand sanitizer all weekend.

[NoJ]

I know a couple going to South Africa in a few weeks for a safari and stuff. Their flight back includes a stop in Senegal, which is just north of the hot zone. It were me, I'd postpone the entire shebang until things get right.

 

On the same topic, me and a pal have been talking about the Ebola thing since July. We've been aghast at the slow response to the crisis in the region. Now look where we are....

[Hixter]

On the same topic, me and a pal have been talking about the Ebola thing since July. We've been aghast at the slow response to the crisis in the region. Now look where we are....

Likewise. Right now, the government/CDC seems to be doing more damage control than disease control. They're losing the public's trust now that we're seeing healthcare workers coming down with the disease despite intense precautions. It's worrying that one of them actually flew less than 24 hours before becoming symptomatic.

 

Nightmare scenario: a large outbreak in poor Central American countries that would cause tens/hundreds of thousands of potential carriers to stream across our southern border.

[NoJ]

Over the course of the last 6 months, I've been putting water, dried foods, ammo, propane, candles and medical supplies in a cache. Call me a wingnut but I have a family to consider and I'm not gonna get caught with my pants down.

[Lammycat]

Hah! Wingnut.

[NoJ]

That reminds me, I need to pick up 15 lbs of lentils and a pound of chili powder.

[Lammycat]

Don't forget to pick up the metal hats!

[NoJ]

Got it!

 

Oh yeah and the latex gloves, gotta get some of those.

[Hixter]

Over the course of the last 6 months, I've been putting water, dried foods, ammo, propane, candles and medical supplies in a cache. 

It never hurts to be prepared. I grew up in Florida and the authorities encouraged everyone to have enough supplies to last at least 3 days without outside assistance, but they recommended 2 weeks of provisions. Hurricane Charley wiped out my hometown and some residents were without electricity for 12 days, so the smart ones with generators and food stashes were much better off. Hurricanes are very localized, so a nationwide outbreak of Ebola would dwarf anything we've seen.

 

I have friends with ranches in the middle of nowhere that are well-stocked with provisions and firearms. Due to my beer-brewing skills and extensive collection of amateur radio gear, I've already been told that I'll have a spot with their families if the balloon goes up.

[tinnitus photography]

[Hixter]

That's a rather lazy and poor commentary on the Ebola epidemic, as we're talking about an infectious disease. You can't catch alcoholism, obesity or emphysema from a toilet seat as far as I know. It would have been more suitable for the cartoonist to compare Ebola to modern plagues like HIV/AIDS.

 

It's certainly too early to panic, but we're talking about a communicable disease with a mortality rate of about 70% that is now present in the United States and Europe and is spreading almost uncontrolled in Africa. Some predictions say we'll be looking at 1.4 million cases around the world. That's a lot of deaths.

 

Some of history's greatest epidemics (Wikipedia):

 

 

Plague of Justinian, from 541 to 750, killed between 50% and 60% of Europe's population.

 

The Black Death of 1347 to 1352 killed 25 million in Europe over 5 years. The plague reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in the 14th century.

 

The introduction of smallpox, measles, and typhus to the areas of Central and South America by European explorers during the 15th and 16th centuries caused pandemics among the native inhabitants. Between 1518 and 1568 disease pandemics are said to have caused the population of Mexico to fall from 20 million to 3 million.

 

The first European influenza epidemic occurred between 1556 and 1560, with an estimated mortality rate of 20%.

 

Smallpox killed an estimated 60 million Europeans during the 18th century (approximately 400,000 per year). Up to 30% of those infected, including 80% of the children under 5 years of age, died from the disease, and one-third of the survivors went blind.

 

In the 19th century, tuberculosis killed an estimated one-quarter of the adult population of Europe; by 1918 one in six deaths in France were still caused by TB.

 

The Influenza Pandemic of 1918 (or the Spanish Flu) killed 25-50 million people (about 2% of world population of 1.7 billion). Today Influenza kills about 250,000 to 500,000 worldwide each year.

 

[NoJ]

I was motivated after reading a book on the Katrina debacle. Its silly to count on the fed and local government for support if/when an "event" occurs.

[tinnitus photography]

so should the government institute controls over how and where people travel, or would that turn them into a police state?

[KevinG]

 

exactly.  

 

While this is tragic to everyone involved, this will have no effect to 99.999% of the population.  It is all media hype.  Ebola is like shark attacks.  Something that is scary and something the media loves to report on.  But it isn't going to affect you.  We are not Western Africa and have a pretty solid Health Care System in place; the people infected (here in the US) survive.  Will  this whole thing will blow over just after Halloween.  When the top story will be about how the GOP did or did not take control of the Senate and what this means to 2016.  

 

Tinnitus is right there are so many other things that could kill you and we don't care about them.  

 

Edit:  From Hixtler's Wiki copy:

 

 

 

Today Influenza kills about 250,000 to 500,000 worldwide each year.

 

Why are we not worried about that?  That is a lot of deaths.  It just goes to the point that Ebola is all media hype.  

Edited October 15, 2014 by KevinG

[lost highway]

Yeah, Texas has had thousands more measels cases than they'll ever have ebola, due to lack of health care and misinformation on vaccines.

[KevinG]

http://huff.to/1w8BafZ

 

This, yes a thousand times. Shep Smith is a sane voice in a room of idiots.

[Hixter]

I was motivated after reading a book on the Katrina debacle. Its silly to count on the fed and local government for support if/when an "event" occurs.

Exactly. Responsibility goes from the bottom up: You -> Local Government -> State Government -> Federal Government.

 

There should be zero deaths from hurricanes in this country, as the public has days of advance notice. If you don't evacuate, don't expect anyone to help you for several days.

 

so should the government institute controls over how and where people travel, or would that turn them into a police state?

They already do. And the CDC is considering adding health care workers who are on the watch list to the no fly list.

 

It is all media hype.

Are the CDC and WHO considered to be part of the media? They've been offering some dire warnings and predictions.

 

Why are we not worried about that?  That is a lot of deaths.  It just goes to the point that Ebola is all media hype.

We are worried about it and there are flu vaccination programs everywhere you look, but there is no vaccination for Ebola and influenza tends to kill only the weakest of the people who contract it: the elderly, babies and people with compromised immune systems. Ebola kills 70% of its victims.

 

Yeah, Texas has had thousands more measels cases than they'll ever have ebola, due to lack of health care and misinformation on vaccines.

There have been fewer than 300 cases in the whole country this year, so your count for Texas is rather exaggerated. Vaccinations are available for free, so the only ones to blame are the anti-vaxers and illegal immigrants from countries without proper vaccination programs.

 

http://huff.to/1w8BafZ

 

This, yes a thousand times. Shep Smith is a sane voice in a room of idiots.

 

They are isolated. There is no information to suggest that the virus has spread to anyone in the general population in America. 

Not exactly, Shep. The latest victim is isolated now, but she wandered around Akron, the Cleveland airport and a passenger jet while feverish and possibly contagious, so let's wait a few weeks before making that statement.

[tinnitus photography]

They already do. And the CDC is considering adding health care workers who are on the watch list to the no fly list.

i'm not talking about issuing passports or maintaining a no-fly list, i'm talking about completely sealing off all travel to and from certain regions. i figured that was obvious, but apologies for any ambiguity.

 

if you ran the FAA and/or CDC, would you institute such a policy?

[Hixter]

if you ran the FAA and/or CDC, would you institute such a policy?

Yeah, at this point I probably would. I've read that only 100 people travel to the U.S. daily from the hard-hit nations in Africa, so the impact would be minor.

 

Travel to Cuba is essentially verboten for Americans, but plenty of them find ways around it, so the same would probably happen with travel to/from banned areas in Africa.

 

We also banned travel to Israel this summer for what were essentially political reasons.

[NoJ]

A quarantine zone shoulda been imposed in affected areas in western Africa months ago. No one goes in, no one comes out (with plenty of air support delivering supplies) until Ebola burned itself out. Certainly harsh but containment could've been attained and the disease stopped. Anyone have any good ideas to stop it in western Africa now? I don't, that cat is out of the bag and on the loose.

[tinnitus photography]

i didn't realize there was a travel ban to israel. seems like it was 48hr and that other countries also did the same.

 

i lose faith in humanity every time i read the comments section...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/faa-extends-travel-ban-israel-24-hours/story?id=24680679

[KevinG]

 

Are the CDC and WHO considered to be part of the media? They've been offering some dire warnings and predictions.

 

As you say you don't watch FoxNews or listen to talk radio, but I have in recent days.  There is quite a difference between what the CDC and WHO are saying and what is being presented in these news outlets.  Just for example note the tone and differences between between the CDC Ebola page and a searches I  a did on FoxNews and Glenn Beck's The Blaze.  And then of course there is this nugget from Mr. Beck himself. 

 

I am not saying that it is not a tragedy, but the level of media freak out is unnecessary and counter productive.  

 

Here are my predictions:

• There will be no more than 1 or 2 people infected from Thomas Eric Duncan
  • The reason for the infections will be a result of a failure by the hospital and its staff to properly adhere to safety procedures
• Anyone infected by Thomas Eric Duncan will recover fully
• No person will become infected from the two nurses who currently have Ebola
• After the Mid Term Elections Ebola will be rarely talked about in major media outlets.
  •  If it is it will be like oh remeber the nurse how had Ebola, she is fine now.  
• Ebola will still be a crisis in West Africa, thousands, or millions will die.  But it is Africa and as long as it ain't here no one is going to care.  

[Hixter]

Anyone have any good ideas to stop it in western Africa now? I don't, that cat is out of the bag and on the loose.

It's spread too far geographically to be able to contain it in Africa. Typical outbreaks are in small, isolated areas, but this one has gotten away from us.

 

At the very least, we need to teach the African people that bush meat is not an appropriate food source. Stop eating bats and monkeys and start raising chickens and goats, people!

 

i didn't realize there was a travel ban to israel. seems like it was 48hr and that other countries also did the same.

It was short -- a political message to Israel. 

[NoJ]

My brother was in the Peace Corp in Gabon for 2.5 years, waaaay deep in the jungle. He did eat bush meat every so often but wouldnt go near monkeys, chimps, etc (too human-like when skinned; he said it was freaky). He said there's no way stopping people from going after bush meat; folks have been doing it since the dawn of time.