bobbob1313

How many players have died even as an indirect result of steroid use. The fact of the matter is, the league felt it necessary to outlaw the spitball following this incident, so they obviously felt it had an effect. A spitball is an extremely dangerous maneuver for painfully obvious reasons. I don't see how anyone can celebrate their usage and then out of the other side of their mouth, vilify steroid users. That absolutely boggles my mind. It's not like people are saying "the spitball is bad, but steroids are worse." People are absolutely celebrating spitballers. Does that not strike anyone els

hanson had one single a few years back that I loved. It had piano, and Paul McCartney's song 'anyway' reminded me of it.

Because when players back then cheated, it was charming.

Did I post the quote from Selig during the congressional hearing where he admitted that there was no rule on the book? If not I'll post it when I get home.

My biggest problem is, as I've said, people get so angry about steroids, but then you can almost see their eyes light as they describe the guile and cunning it takes for other types of cheating. And I like your defense of carl mays: it wasn't illegal. Sounds familiar. John smith makes a valid point re: cause and effect, however.

I'm almost positive amphetamines arebanned now, but they are an afterthought to the average fan, despite them being probably more widespread than steroids ever have been. And the sentiment described in leo's post is one I will absoluely never understand. People applaud one kind of cheating and then turn around and say "FUCK YOU AROD". It's fucking stupid. "Never to be repeated again?" Are you joking? As for the for point about it being done to not win, how the fuck is that even possible? There is no such thing as a "selfish statistic". Everything you do on the field has an outcome on

I always get your avatars mixed up...

I also really (REALLY) fail to see how emphetamine use and steroids aren't put on the same level. Matt, I meant real clues. That is all speculative, and doesn't really tell us anything substantive. We have no idea how much Alex Rodriguez benefitted from it, considering he had 4 clean seasons that are as good or better than any of his dirty ones. It also doesn't tell us how it is affected when the pitcher throwing the ball that hits the bat with the higher bat speed etc. is also on steroids. We focus way too much on the hitters, as if they werethe only ones who used. Half of the players

From what I've seen, he can certainly play, and I know he started his career as a session guitarist.

Oh, absolutely there are various levels of cheating. And I would argue PED are somewhat worse, but the level that it reaches is not known because instead of studying the actual effects everyone just gets mad and screams at guys who do it. There are known outcomes for scuffing a ball or stealing signs, but nobody really has any clue what impact steroids have on performance. Baseball Prospectus has done studies this with just the guys who have failed tests and found the difference in performance pre and post fail to be small enough to fall within the margin of chance, so the only actual study I'

Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in the face for taking back during practice, allegedly. And I think you are just looking for reasons to hate Kobe.

So something that directly affects the outcome of the game in a very real way (stealing signs, scuffing the ball) is ok. Doing something that we have literally no idea how it affects the game is the worst thing ever. The difference? People have been doing one for a long time, so it's ok! Good logic. I've yet to hear a legitimate reason why steroids are worse than any other form of cheating.

Again, that argument holds no water, since that means no crimes were committed up to 2004.

Justifying cheating through the "art" scuffing the ball, or stealing signs seems to be fairly common. No one thinking this way will be swayed. And for all of you old timers: Breaking news, baseball players in the 90's weren't the first to take any possible shortcut to become better.

That was great, and John Mayer and Keith Urban more than held their own too.

The names that have come out on the Mitchell Report and through failed tests prove that there is no one type of player that was using. Bench players, hall of fame type players, all stars, starting pitchers, closers, relievers. Are there decent players out there? Yes. Many of them took steroids too. Just like many decent players 40-50 years ago took amphetamines (including Hank Aaron, and if sworn testimony is to be believed, one William Mays). You can be a decent person and cheat, if you at some point in your career, reach the conclusion that it is illogical not to cheat, which is the con

I believe the list is supposed to have been kept closed in the court. It is a sealed document, which is why the full list hasn't come out yet. I know this is supposed to be sarcastic, but I can't tell what the hell it's supposed to mean.

Well, if I understand the case correctly, the document with his name on it was seized as part of the BALCO investigation and that case has, to my knowledge, remained officially closed.

I'd say among sports writers, Sheehan is definitely in the minority. Amongst the general population, he's not. I would say more people simply don't care that strongly, and just want to see some baseball than either side.

Well, it shouldn't be outside of the BALCO courtroom either. So there's that. I understand it's how these things always work, but the information in that document should never get out of the court if people are doing their jobs.

Yeah, I heard that Fehr was holding onto it to search for false positives, but this should have never seen the light of day, or if anything, it should never have been labelled, since it was anonymous testing. And I just think it does take some courage to own up to your mistakes, even if you were caught. We've seen how easy it is for other guys accused to get wrapped up in their own lies. I like when the guy owns up for what he did.

He wasn't caught red handed. It would have been very easy for him to say "Show me the records. All this is is a couple of people who aren't even willing to stake their reputations on their word. Show me my name on a list." He could have fought it like Bonds or Clemens, but he manned up to his mistakes. I think it takes a lot of courage to admit something like this, and certainly shows more class than most people expect out of him. I'm sure most people expected him to deny it.

Absolutely. Younger fans also tend to look on spitballs, scuff balls, stealing signs, and other things that older fans see as 'gamesmanship' in a much harsher light. Believe me, I'm not alone in a lot of my opinions. And you're oversimplification of Sheehan's article works both ways: ""I care way too much that Alex Rodriguez used steroids."- Bill Madden. This sums up that article pretty well. So he cares? Plenty of other people don't."

Well, for the people who tested positive in 03, they were garaunteed that there would be anonimity and MLB really dropped the ball in regards to that, because there was no reason for them to even label the samples or keep the results. A-Rod may have a lawsuit, and I expect that to be a major sticking point for the PA when the next CBA comes around. So I wouldn't say they are dumb, necessarily for continuing their use into 2003. Just looking to maintain that edge when there were still no penalties for doing so.

Didn't all of the giambi rumors start when he showed up 20 pounds heavy or something?