How DO they do that?

[Artifex]

So I'm working on recording an album myself. Theres several tracks that I'd like to have noise jams of sorts on. I'd be intrested if any of you guys have points or know how Wilco made some of the noise they made on tracks like Poor Places and Ashes of American Flags. ( I notice some Poor Places guitar sound action in in evidence on Wreckroom off the new Loose Fur Album)

[kaysettes]

Depending on what equipment you have available, record whatever song you want the noise jam at the end and take a copy of the recording and slow it down as much as you can using Protools or some other program. That'll give a nice ambient base for the noise. Also, putting heaps of sustain on a slow rotation organ can give that. Feedback with an acoustic works real well for me. No matter how poorly it sounds during recording, the playback sounds infinitely better.

[Artifex]

Thanks, that's some really good ideas.

 

Anybody else have any favorite methods?

[jhh4321]

Thanks, that's some really good ideas.

 

Anybody else have any favorite methods?

 

Run an instrument of your choice through a moog, usually sounds pretty cool.

[ginandcigarettes]

Overdub!

Even stuff that isn't that weird or noisy, when mixed with other things that by themsleves aren't that weird or noisy, become really weird and noisy. Warning! Can be overdone -- you want interesting noise, not white noise (which is profoundly uninteresting and why you call the TV repair guy).

 

Filter!

The most mundane sound becomes really interesting when a bunch of its frequencies are cut or boosted in really unnatural ways. Wah-wah pedals are types of filters (band-pass) that are readily available. Especially useful is messing with the filter frequency and resonance in real-time. Then, overdub. Warning, you might sound like Tangerine Dream after a while.

 

Echo!

Reverb, delay, whatever, gobs of it will stretch parts over each other in liquid ways. Pristine parts are now unidentifiable! Echoes feedback in rhythmic ways! Warning! Besides feedback and playing stuff backwards, this is the standard I'm-weird-and-like-noise-and-wear-too-much-black move. It's perfectly acceptable to do, but a little bit goes a long way.

 

I hope this helps. I might try to post an MP3 of a bit of noise I've been working on (since this topic has coincided with some noise recording I've been doing) and I can explain what was going on if anyone is interested.

 

Cheers!

[Artifex]

Cool, I'm sure that would be intesting.

[ginandcigarettes]

Here's the link:

 

Noise Sample

 

The level is a little off because I really don't know what I'm doing with ProTools so it might be a touch soft.

 

Anyhoo, I'm using a Korg CX-3 Hammond Organ clone (just like Mikal! before he got a real Hammond Organ), a Boss Overdrive/Distortion pedal (not my first choice, but all I had lying around the house), a Korg KAOSS Pad (new! just like Nels!), and an ProTools MBox on a iBook.

 

There are only 4 tracks but they're each heavily processed (there are 6 elements below but they only appear on 4 tracks since I'm all about conservation). Three of the four tracks are loops of the organ going through the overdrive pedal.

 

With the KAOSS pad I looped a bit of me playing the organ in a really high register and played it back pretty straight until I start messing with the playback speed.

 

Using the same loop, I added a flange-like filter and played around with the resonance until it self-oscillated in interesting ways (the long sustaining feedback-like sound at around 0:22 and 0:33).

 

Using a different loop in the middle range, I slowed down the playback speed until it was just a low rumble and then added a filter in ProTools that made it sound like it was being broadcast from the moon.

 

I then used a synth setting on the KAOSS pad and made an even lower-frequency rumble and broke up the monotony by throwing in a couple of higher-frequncy stabs.

 

I took a piece of that sound in ProTools, added reverb, filtered out most of the highs, time stretched it to four-times the length, and added chorus (the rumble at 0:45). I might have dropped the pitch, I can't remember.

 

Finally, I used a signal generator in ProTools for the sine wave at 0:52.

 

Lessons for me:

(1) The best moments (IMHO) are when things happened randomly -- I spent three times as much time tweaking the rumble and sine wave at the end as I did on all of the beginning (which I pretty much recorded and then left alone save for adding a plug-in or two). I'm not sure it really shows. On the beginning parts I really didn't care if thngs lined up or lasted long enough or whatever.

(2) KAOSS pads are cool and totally worth going into debt for.

(3) I should learn how to use ProTools and figure out how to master recordings.

(4) I should get a girlfriend.

 

Questions? Comments? All welcome.

Edited January 20, 2006 by ginandcigarettes

[SomewhatHonest]

Turn up the gain on your amp and make sure it's ridiculously loud. Then go wild with lots of open strings and whatnot. Much easier than all this delay and synth nonsense. And it's more fun to see how unlike a guitar you can get your guitar to sound like with no effects.

[ginandcigarettes]

Much easier than all this delay and synth nonsense.

 

Hmm... SomewhatHonest brings up in interesting point (though I'm a touch hurt that he called delay and synth stuff nonsense, expecially since that is precisely how Wilco got those sounds on YHF, which is what Artifex was asking about in the first place ): you can get surprisingly noisy results with relatively common items used in uncommon ways.

 

Anyhoo, Artifex, maybe you could tell us what equipment you have available to you and, if you plan on buying more stuff, what your budget is. That way, we can figure out cool ways to use the stuff you already have or are likely to get, rather than ask you to invest in stuff you might not need or can't afford.

[kaysettes]

Sometimes I just crank the amp up to 11 and plug in various electrical appliances near it, that gives some pretty good feedback. A paper shredder and massage chair are my current favorites.

[jhc]

Sometimes I just crank the amp up to 11 and plug in various electrical appliances near it, that gives some pretty good feedback. A paper shredder and massage chair are my current favorites.

 

Shoot a remote control (TV, stereo, whatever, try them all) into your electric guitar pickups.

[Artifex]

Lol, I don't think that would actually do anything.

[jhc]

Lol, I don't think that would actually do anything.

 

I'm totally serious, and it does make any manner of bleeps and other noises.

[a.miller]

I also am recording an album and have the desire to do this. I have pro tools, and for me I can't afford all the fancy plugins...So this is what I have done: e.g. Output your guitar track to another track...that is, have the send from the guitar track as the input on a totally new track. Let your song play through so the other track records a mirror image of the original guitar track. Now, put everything back to how it was before you recorded so you can hear both sets of guitar. On the track you just made, add delay, and I mean a lot. Use stereo delay and tweak the frequency and the feedback to gets some neat sounding shit. You can also put cuts in that track and fade it in and out. I read that for Via Chicago there was a way heavier version recorded and this is how Jay and Jeff have the parts come through that contain all of the feedback, etc. For that matter you can add reverb and delay to anything and get some really cool ambient sounds or whatever you're looking for.

[Artifex]

"Anyhoo, Artifex, maybe you could tell us what equipment you have available to you and, if you plan on buying more stuff, what your budget is. That way, we can figure out cool ways to use the stuff you already have or are likely to get, rather than ask you to invest in stuff you might not need or can't afford."

 

 

For recording, I plug my Strat and ol' Ovation Preacher ( think SG) directly into Cubase. I've got some amazing plugins that model a JCM 900, a Fender Twin, and some stompboxes very well. They are free ( they were the product of some univercity), and I'll give you guys the link when I get back on my own computer.

 

I mic my aucostics with an old shure condensor, and record everything into an M-Audio Firewire 1418.

 

I'm open to any suggestions. This is alot of fun hearing everyone else's ideas!

 

aburharabi- I'd love to hear what your working on. Hook me up sometime. :-)

[Synthesizer Patel]

Basically what I've done in the past when I've recorded noise tracks is put down a whole bunch of noises - eg. scratching guitar strings, making noises with my mouth, tapping glasses of water, blah blah blah and then I slow them down massively, reverse them (this is great to build up to a song or chorus becuase having reversed the sound it will build up very slowly getting louder and louder, but then suddenly reach a peak and cut off at the desired point). putting whatever effects you've got on to these sounds will also be good, but really all you need is what I've just said because as soon as you slow down a sound say 500% slower than it should sound you'll hear how weird that sounds on it's own then as soon as you start reversing it then things start to really sound strange. Layering all these things together produces some cool sounding noise. I might upload a sample of what I mean later to show you what I mean if I get time.

[mfwahl]

Shoot a remote control (TV, stereo, whatever, try them all) into your electric guitar pickups.

Thanks for this. I needed this exact thing for a song. I stole it.

 

Make sure you have a reliable remote. I played a show and didn't have mine and tried to use the one of the bar there. It made no noise except that Conan came on a television screen. These should come in different keys so I can do more stuff though. Hohner All-for-One Remotes: coming in all sharp keys.

[mfwahl]

Something I just did which isn't very groundbreaking but I needed a sound like a jet that didn't sound like one actually and wasn't a processed sound. I leaned my lap steel up against my amp and ran it through some effects (I used a chorus and octave but that was just because they were sitting on top of my amp). I put the gain on my amp very high so that the lap steel started to feedback. Then I ran my slide up the neck. Makes a cool sound especially if you make a sharp cut right at the end like I used it for a hectic noise intro into a ballad. Volume pedal works well in the chain so it can get louder as you move up but it might be better to record it straight and then do volume adjustments in the mix so that there is more freedom in the mixing process.

 

I need more weird tricks people have come across. Any help will be appreciated. Hopefully I can post some of the tunes my band has been recording soon but as most people have who have done this know there are no guarantees.

[Pecan_Pie]

Feedback and a flanger works for the jet plane swoosh for me.

[jhc]

Feedback and a flanger works for the jet plane swoosh for me.

 

word

 

Lap steels are fun for noise - I find that the increased tension makes it really easy to use an Ebow on one.

[a.miller]

you guys know of a good lap steel that won't break the bank?

[bxb03a]

Musician's friend sells one that like $60, Artisan or something, Ive got it.....works fine

[mfwahl]

Musician's friend sells one that like $60, Artisan or something, Ive got it.....works fine

I second that.

[jhc]

Musician's friend sells one that like $60, Artisan or something, Ive got it.....works fine

 

that's what I have

[a.miller]

thanks for the info.