cryptique Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 This article pretty much put it into perspective for me: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...sts_not_israel/This is not an "article," it's an opinion piece. Dershowitz is hardly an unbiased commentator on this issue. I'm not saying that what he writes should be discounted ... just that you should get both sides of the story if you really want "perspective." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Fuck, people, enough with the leftwing/rightwing stuff. That's how this shit gets so bad in the first place. I try not to take a side on this, because there's plenty of stupid shit being done on both sides. Hezbollah and the Palestinians need to stop using terrorism to strike back at their oppressor. Israel needs to stop acting like an oppressor. Which came first? Who started it? WHO GIVES A FUCK, JUST STOP IT. It's an endlessly repeating cycle of violence between two cultures that don't want to compromise. Until someone or something manages to change the mindsets on both sides, the violence will continue. Israel will never be able to "win" this conflict, any more than Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Al Aqsa brigades will. There's an endless supply of angry people on both sides. What's worse? One crazed fanatic blowing himself up in a market, or troops (and pilots) methodically destroying a country's infrastructure? The answer: neither. They're both evil, and they both need to stop. You don't fight terrorism by terrorizing. You don't fight oppression by blowing up innocent civilians out shopping for dinner. Hezbollah and certain Palestinian factions are terrorists. The Israeli government are oppressors. They're both full of shit. It does bother me that the U.S. government has always thrown the bulk of its support behind Israel, but not because I have anything against Israel or because I support their adversaries -- rather, because by taking sides the way the U.S. has, our government has actually helped to make the violence worse. Had we dealt more evenhandedly with the two sides, I strongly doubt it'd be the powder keg that it is today. And that has nothing to do with who's in the White House. Democratic administrations (and Congresses) have been just as disastrous in their Middle Eastern policy as Republican ones. yep! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ScottHoward Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 ... just that you should get both sides of the story if you really want "perspective."You should keep this in mind for future issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 You should keep this in mind for future issues.Future issues of Hustler? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dreamin' Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Is anyone familar with the "hot sauce study?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 WHO GIVES A FUCK, JUST STOP IT. Damn. You're right. okay, we'll stop. yeah, this is bullshit. we cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 What I believe from studying BOTH sides of the story is this: Israeli Occupied Law has tormented and destroyed the every day lives of Palestinians, taken away basic needs for human survival, deprived them of clear passage to education and unjustly taken their homes for Jewish Settlements. I don't really hate one group or the other for their religions, etc. I simply call them by their names. The Palestinian peoples have been mistreated for far too long by those that uphold Israeli Occupied Law. Period. I am not saying this justifies suicide bombings and terrorism. I am simply saying that when the basic needs of human survival are ripped away from someone, and in most cases someone that has worked hard for what they have, the psychological effects are far reaching. Give the Palestinians TRUE autonomy to govern their own piece of land and predictability (which they still do not have) in their every day lives and I believe a lot of the madness will dissipate, and eventually fall away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Those cod damn land grubbing jews. Why can't they just let the terrroristsPalestinian people live in peace? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Hezbollah is not a Palestinian organization. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Hezbollah is not a Palestinian organization.I understand that. But they have been mentioned in the discussion above, so I was throwing in my two cents. On subject: I absolutely stand firmly against the attack on Lebanon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheelco Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 On subject: I absolutely stand firmly against the attack on Lebanon.I'm not as firm as you on this, though I would not call myself a supporter what should Israel have done about the incursions, killings and kidnappings? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Don't forget the anti-Semitism. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 what should Israel have done about the incursions, killings and kidnappings?I don't have the answers. Wish I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheelco Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Don't forget the anti-Semitism.Hezbollah is anti-semitic!?1!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Don't forget the anti-Semitism.I am not an anti Semite. I am anti Israeli Occupied Law and the destruction it has caused over the years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I am not an anti Semite. I am anti Israeli Occupied Law and the destruction it has caused over the years. Whatever...Anne Coulter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I am not an anti Semite. I am anti Israeli Occupied Law and the destruction it has caused over the years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 I am not an anti Semite. I am anti Israeli Occupied Law and the destruction it has caused over the years. Easy, killer. Just echoing your buddy Scott. Not looking to start WWV here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Easy, killer. Just echoing your buddy Scott. Not looking to start WWV here.World War V. Now there's an album title. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
a.miller Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 World War V. Now there's an album title.I think this has anti-semitic tones. (going for a little less-dense sarcasm, to lighten things up ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Laminated Kat Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Easy, killer. Just echoing your buddy Scott. Not looking to start WWV here.Oh, i know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 On that note, however, does Lebanon bear no responsibility for allowing Hezbollah to operate within its borders? While I certainly feel the scope and magnitude of Israel's response is overboard, I'm okay with the idea of a response of some kind. Does Israel need to look at its policies and be more fair to its inhabitants and neighbors? Sure. Does Lebanon need to make sure bands of militia aren't roaming its southern border and shooting rockets into another country? Absolutely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 There are plenty of Israelis who are more than willing to give land for peace. (In fact they already did this to some extent.) The Israelis' behavior in the occupied territories has certainly been reprehensible, but unfortunately the Palestinians have not appeared able to manage those territories even when given some autonomy. I certainly don't side with some of my friends (israeli and otherwise) who feel that the Palestinians should never be given a state, in fact I think they SHOULD be given a state and can be given a state if it is possible. But this is not just up to the US, it is also up to all the powers in the mideast who can affect some positive change. For better or worse, the State of Israel is a reality, as a Palestinian state needs to be a reality. Every state supporting each side needs to help demilitarize the fucking place and get on with it. I have always said, the day there is peace in that region, there is more than enough tourist trade to support each and every country, because people the world over want to visit the "holy land" and if not that, there could be some kick ass resorts along that part of the Mediteranian. But as long as people are shelling each other, political and economic progress ain't gonna happen. Its all really stupid and destructive and while the Israeli's have shown little restraint at many points, the Palestinian factiions and others such as Hezbollah, have shown little restraint as well. LouieB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 On that note, however, does Lebanon bear no responsibility for allowing Hezbollah to operate within its borders? While I certainly feel the scope and magnitude of Israel's response is overboard, I'm okay with the idea of a response of some kind. Does Israel need to look at its policies and be more fair to its inhabitants and neighbors? Sure. Does Lebanon need to make sure bands of militia aren't roaming its southern border and shooting rockets into another country? Absolutely.Not to muddy the waters, but you have to remember that until quite recently, any talk of "Lebanon" as a sovereign nation had to include mention of Syria, who actually ran the place. I have no idea what the transition was like when Syria loosened its grip -- but it's at least somewhat possible that Hezbollah's power in the region is greater than that of the new Lebanese government. Isn't Hezbollah largely supported by Syria? Anyone know more about this? I'm curious. I mean, if the Lebanese government is truly independent of Syria now (I don't suspect they're completely independent, but still), what power do they have, if any, to rein in Hezbollah? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WITHIK Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 We had the solution 6 years ago Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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