ction Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 A-Rod's offseason workouts include clubbing baby seals and taking candy from babies. The latter of which is actually quite helpful, especially if you've ever had to deal with a kid on a sugar high. The seal thing is like a first class ticket to hell though. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Nobody said it was logical. However, if he had batted .300 in the last couple playoff series, nobody would be calling him a bum. Okay, no reasonable person would be calling him a bum. Seriously, if A-rod had produced more in the 04 LCS, that "walk off" home run that Ortiz hit might not have ended the game. Jeter hit .200 and had a .566 OPS to Arod's .260 and .884. Alex produced pretty good numbers in that series, sure not HoF numbers, but he was probably the best hitter on the team during the series (just like he's the best hitter on the team during all series and seasons) Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Jeter hit .200 and had a .566 OPS to Arod's .260 and .884. Alex produced pretty good numbers in that series, sure not HoF numbers, but he was probably the best hitter on the team during the series (just like he's the best hitter on the team during all series and seasons)You're overlooking the fact that people are probably more down on the .133 and .071 than they are the .258 he put up in the 04 LCS, which isn't that great either. I'm sure just-worse-than-1-for-4 (19 for 79, or .241) is not quite what the Yankees expected from A-Rod in the playoffs when they hired him. Regardless of his past accomplishments, until he comes through in the playoffs, why would the Yankees and their fans cut him any slack? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 You're overlooking the fact that people are probably more down on the .133 and .071 than they are the .258 he put up in the 04 LCS, which isn't that great either. I'm sure just-worse-than-1-for-4 (19 for 79, or .241) is not quite what the Yankees expected from A-Rod in the playoffs when they hired him. Regardless of his past accomplishments, until he comes through in the playoffs, why would the Yankees and their fans cut him any slack? Well, what do you consider "coming through"? There is no set barometer for it, but I bet if he hits .700 in a 7 game series and drives in like 28 runs but strikes out with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs in the 9th inning of game 7 when down by 1 will he have "come through"? Or if he gets one hit in 7 games but it's a walk off home run to win the series, will that count? I don't think they'll be happy until he leaves town. There is an irrational hatred of him that doesn't really stem from anything. Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Jeter hit .200 and had a .566 OPS to Arod's .260 and .884. Alex produced pretty good numbers in that series, sure not HoF numbers, but he was probably the best hitter on the team during the series (just like he's the best hitter on the team during all series and seasons)Jeter played on four Yankees World Series championship teams, though, so he's given something of a pass, at least compared to A-Rod, who's achieved exactly bupkus in the postseason so far. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Well, what do you consider "coming through"? There is no set barometer for it, but I bet if he hits .700 in a 7 game series and drives in like 28 runs but strikes out with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs in the 9th inning of game 7 when down by 1 will he have "come through"? Or if he gets one hit in 7 games but it's a walk off home run to win the series, will that count? I don't think they'll be happy until he leaves town. There is an irrational hatred of him that doesn't really stem from anything.Certainly doing better than 3 for 29 would be a big start toward "coming through." Remember that we're talking about the Yankees here, who are distraught that there are seven year olds who live in a world in which the Yankees have never won a World Series. I don't know what it will take for Yankees fans to get off his back, although I understand their disappointment in his last two playoff series, and to some extent in his last three. There are also Red Sox fans who are never going to forgive him for not forcing the union to allow him to restructure his contract (completely irrational, I know) and come to Boston. Others just don't like his whiny bitch face (Rasheed Wallace Syndrome). Still, say what you will, it doesn't come from nowhere. Dirk Nowitzki was the regular season MVP this year. How do you think Mavs fans feel about him right about now? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Certainly doing better than 3 for 29 would be a big start toward "coming through." Remember that we're talking about the Yankees here, who are distraught that there are seven year olds who live in a world in which the Yankees have never won a World Series. I don't know what it will take for Yankees fans to get off his back, although I understand their disappointment in his last two playoff series, and to some extent in his last three. There are also Red Sox fans who are never going to forgive him for not forcing the union to allow him to restructure his contract (completely irrational, I know) and come to Boston. Others just don't like his whiny bitch face (Rasheed Wallace Syndrome). Still, say what you will, it doesn't come from nowhere. Dirk Nowitzki was the regular season MVP this year. How do you think Mavs fans feel about him right about now? I definetly understand where it's all coming from, I just think it's highly irrational. I mean, I would take Arod on the Marlins right now, and not think twice about it, but I guess it's just a completely different thing. I just think people put way too much credence on what they percieve and not what actually happens. I think this is illustrated by the fact that Arod had a great year last year and they still booed him because the fans "saw" him choke in the clutch. But really he just happened to have some bad luck in the postseason. Because when a .300 hitter hits .071 for 14 at bats, lets face it, it's gotta be about 99.99999 percent bad luck and maybe .00001 percent "non-clutchiness". Either that or they ran into a Tigers team that was pitching out of it's mind at that point. Jeter played on four Yankees World Series championship teams, though, so he's given something of a pass, at least compared to A-Rod, who's achieved exactly bupkus in the postseason so far. So Jeter should be given credit for being on a ridiculously talented team for 4 years and ARod should be hurt by the fact that he's played for some mediocre teams? Link to post Share on other sites
cryptique Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 So Jeter should be given credit for being on a ridiculously talented team for 4 years and ARod should be hurt by the fact that he's played for some mediocre teams?I'm not saying it's fair or rational. That's just the way it is. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 You know what else is irrational? Giving a fuck about a bunch of guys throwing and hitting a ball around in a field. Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied lightning Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 a-men Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 You know what else is irrational? Giving a fuck about a bunch of guys throwing and hitting a ball around in a field. If you look at it that way, giving a fuck about most things in the world is irrational. I mean, unless you are incredibly single minded about it, and only give a fuck about famine and 3rd world debt, it's hard to not give a fuck about things that don't matter. I say it's better to get all worked up about something like this than something like religion. With baseball rarely does anyone get offended. Link to post Share on other sites
darkstar Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Irrational or not I think most of the A-rod haters (myself included) perceive the guy as nothing more than a big number guy that does nothing else. Sure he's gonna hit 30-40 HR a year with 100+ rbi's and bat at least .300 but that's it. The great players in any sport the Tiger Woods, Larry Bird, Jordan's etc etc win championships. That's it. That is why they are thought of as all time greats. A-Rod has never helped his team(s) win diddly that's why a lot of people see him as nothing but a number hungry spoiled jerk. Sure he's atop the lists in most stats this year but his team is stinking now (not all his fault obviously) but thats the perception. The guy puts up some serious numbers but will go down with the likes of Karl Malone, Dan Marino, etc because he never won a championship. Irrational? probably but people remember champions. Personally I don't like the guy 'cause he's a Yankee and yes as a Bosox fan of course I have an irrational hatred of all Yankees, just they way they breed us up in Massachusetts. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 If you look at it that way, giving a fuck about most things in the world is irrational. I mean, unless you are incredibly single minded about it, and only give a fuck about famine and 3rd world debt, it's hard to not give a fuck about things that don't matter. I say it's better to get all worked up about something like this than something like religion. With baseball rarely does anyone get offended.I'm just sayin. What did Vishnu ever do that the Shinto guys are all like, "that's not for me, bro." It's not like Judas really did anything bad - in fact his actions actually served God's will, if that's what you believe - and yet he's pretty universally reviled. People are definitely up in arms over the A-Rod thing. p.s. I'd like to submit a petition to the moderators to change my name to "whiny bitch face," and also to change the associated affliction to "Mike Dunleavy Syndrome." Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Irrational or not I think most of the A-rod haters (myself included) perceive the guy as nothing more than a big number guy that does nothing else. Sure he's gonna hit 30-40 HR a year with 100+ rbi's and bat at least .300 but that's it. The great players in any sport the Tiger Woods, Larry Bird, Jordan's etc etc win championships. That's it. That is why they are thought of as all time greats. A-Rod has never helped his team(s) win diddly that's why a lot of people see him as nothing but a number hungry spoiled jerk. Sure he's atop the lists in most stats this year but his team is stinking now (not all his fault obviously) but thats the perception. The guy puts up some serious numbers but will go down with the likes of Karl Malone, Dan Marino, etc because he never won a championship. Irrational? probably but people remember champions. Personally I don't like the guy 'cause he's a Yankee and yes as a Bosox fan of course I have an irrational hatred of all Yankees, just they way they breed us up in Massachusetts. He's a number hungry, spoiled jerk? Ok, in baseball your "numbers" actually mean something. His 30-40 home runs actually count towards his teams run total. His .300 average helps his team win ball games. You're Tiger Woods (bad example, because he plays an individual sport and so he lives and dies on just himself), Michael Jordans, Larry Birds, etc. win championships because they are great players on good teams. I mean, John Salley won as many Championships as Bird, so is he as good a player? Championships do not make a great player. Great players are great with our without championships. I'm just sayin. What did Vishnu ever do that the Shinto guys are all like, "that's not for me, bro." It's not like Judas really did anything bad - in fact his actions actually served God's will, if that's what you believe - and yet he's pretty universally reviled. People are definitely up in arms over the A-Rod thing. p.s. I'd like to submit a petition to the moderators to change my name to "whiny bitch face," and also to change the associated affliction to "Mike Dunleavy Syndrome." Calm down. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Championships do not make a great player. Great players are great with our without championships.I'm sorry, Chris, but I think you have this wrong. Ask Ernie Banks. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I'm sorry, Chris, but I think you have this wrong. Ask Ernie Banks. As a lifelong (ugh...) Dolphins fan, I can assure you Championships do not make a great player. Or else Dan Marino wouldn't be a great player, and I'm of the opinion he was in fact, the greatest QB ever. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 And I would cite his lack of a ring as evidence otherwise, but football is even more of a team effort than baseball. I propose there is a distinction between talent and "greatness." Talent is something that can be measured by stats, "greatness" is a level of esteem that only the fans can bestow. And they usually bestow it more heavily on those who have a ring. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 It's an argument of semantics more than anything, then. I think you can measure how good a player is (Their "greatness", in other words) by their stats, because stats are a representation of what occurs on the field. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Jason Giambi makes $23.4 million, batted .125 in the last Yanks playoff series, and receives only a fraction of the criticism that A-rod does. Why? It's because he's just simply not as good. Everyone knows it. People expect the best players to be excellent all the time. People focus on every minor, obscure, and contrived flaw in the most talented players. How many times did we hear the ridiculous claim that Peyton Manning couldn't win the big game (which big game? They get progressively bigger as the playoffs progress)? Or that Kobe is a ballhog and doesn't make his teammates better? Or that Lebron James hasn't proven he can hit the big shot? Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Jorge, this may be a "dumb" question: Is that "dude" in your sketch David Crosby?The name of the dude is in the picture. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Sometimes, semantics are everything. Probably not in this case. But how many people these days think of Pete Rose as a "great" player? And he was on three championship teams. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I'd say Pete Rose was a great player. A Great player. A Great Player. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 But was he a great Player? Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are there people who don't think Pete Rose was a great player? Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 You know who sucked? Ted Williams. Link to post Share on other sites
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